What Are You Watching Now
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@nerdydad said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@kelly said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@penguinwrangler said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
Well, I watched the first two episodes of Star Trek Destiny - meh.
I agree, the new Klingons are horrible. Who's person in charge of alien design? I'm guessing they have a background in horror films. That all one color black face just made me think of aliens and horror movies in general.
And it horribly doesn't fit the timeline that's already been established Enterprise and TOS - i.e. in TOS, klingons had no head ridges, and in Enterprise, they explained why so many Klingons didn't have head ridges.
So I guess we have a completely new universe to look forward to. Heck this one might not even have Captain Kirk on the Enterprise.
Oh and what about cloaking? Now I can't recall if Klingons had it in Enterprise or not?
I agree. You can't say you are in the same universe as all the TV series and then ignore the cannon that they have established.
They are joining Star Wars there.
SW:TFA was painful to watch. It was still better than the Star Trek reboot. Not the new TV series, but the one with the characters from TOS.
Can't agree there - was the ST reboot great? nah - was it OK/good - sure. though I absolutely hated them destroying Vulcan - which of course created a whole new timeline.
That's where they forked? I thought it was the very fact that the rogue Romulan ship went back in time and destroyed Kirk's Dad's ship while he was being born. That's a pretty major fork right there.
It's not a fork, though. Not really. It's an alternative time line created in the same universe. That's the key difference. This is a "Back to the Future" scenario where you have multiple overlapping things going on because time has been altered. They didn't actually fork in a movie sense, it's true to the originals in that they start from the same point and then diverge when time was altered. So as long as you accept their premise of time alteration, there is no fork.
~Spoiler Alert~
True. Misuse of terms on my part. Fork was not the correct term, instead of alternate timeline. You're right about the alternative events. Such as Vulcan being destroyed, Kirk dying in the radioactive chamber instead of Spock, Aurara is with Spock instead of Kirk, etc. -
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
Now you've totally lost me. Han was alive at the end of Episode 6 (Return of the Jedi), and there have been no movies or TV shows about the time period between EP6 and EP7, and there are no movies or TV shows after EP7 currently released that would have shown Han alive, so I don't know what you're talking about.
Lucas authorized books that were canon specifically for episodes 7, 8 and 9. Anything outside of those, is not canon.
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@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
Now all that said, I'm guessing you're talking about the books. Sure, There is the Legacy Series (as it's now called by Disney, previously called the EU) that had Han Solo alive after this time frame.. but I did limit my comment to canon movies/shows. Which Disney has kept all movies and (as far as I know) TV shows congruent.
Right, Disney acted as if the real canon didn't exist and made a new Disney Canon based solely on what was shown in the three movies. So... not canon.
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@nerdydad said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@nerdydad said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@kelly said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@penguinwrangler said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
Well, I watched the first two episodes of Star Trek Destiny - meh.
I agree, the new Klingons are horrible. Who's person in charge of alien design? I'm guessing they have a background in horror films. That all one color black face just made me think of aliens and horror movies in general.
And it horribly doesn't fit the timeline that's already been established Enterprise and TOS - i.e. in TOS, klingons had no head ridges, and in Enterprise, they explained why so many Klingons didn't have head ridges.
So I guess we have a completely new universe to look forward to. Heck this one might not even have Captain Kirk on the Enterprise.
Oh and what about cloaking? Now I can't recall if Klingons had it in Enterprise or not?
I agree. You can't say you are in the same universe as all the TV series and then ignore the cannon that they have established.
They are joining Star Wars there.
SW:TFA was painful to watch. It was still better than the Star Trek reboot. Not the new TV series, but the one with the characters from TOS.
Can't agree there - was the ST reboot great? nah - was it OK/good - sure. though I absolutely hated them destroying Vulcan - which of course created a whole new timeline.
That's where they forked? I thought it was the very fact that the rogue Romulan ship went back in time and destroyed Kirk's Dad's ship while he was being born. That's a pretty major fork right there.
It's not a fork, though. Not really. It's an alternative time line created in the same universe. That's the key difference. This is a "Back to the Future" scenario where you have multiple overlapping things going on because time has been altered. They didn't actually fork in a movie sense, it's true to the originals in that they start from the same point and then diverge when time was altered. So as long as you accept their premise of time alteration, there is no fork.
~Spoiler Alert~
True. Misuse of terms on my part. Fork was not the correct term, instead of alternate timeline. You're right about the alternative events. Such as Vulcan being destroyed, Kirk dying in the radioactive chamber instead of Spock, Aurara is with Spock instead of Kirk, etc.And this is why I like it so much. They did a "reboot" that allowed them to reuse so much of the great characters and places and politics in a totally "still canon" way. It's the best reboot I've seen done yet, because they kept everything true, everything in one universe and still managed to reboot it and do it all over again.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
Now all that said, I'm guessing you're talking about the books. Sure, There is the Legacy Series (as it's now called by Disney, previously called the EU) that had Han Solo alive after this time frame.. but I did limit my comment to canon movies/shows. Which Disney has kept all movies and (as far as I know) TV shows congruent.
Right, Disney acted as if the real canon didn't exist and made a new Disney Canon based solely on what was shown in the three movies. So... not canon.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Legends
Lucasfilms specifically declared that the Expanded Universe was now non-canon which implies that up until that point it had been.
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@kelly said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
Now all that said, I'm guessing you're talking about the books. Sure, There is the Legacy Series (as it's now called by Disney, previously called the EU) that had Han Solo alive after this time frame.. but I did limit my comment to canon movies/shows. Which Disney has kept all movies and (as far as I know) TV shows congruent.
Right, Disney acted as if the real canon didn't exist and made a new Disney Canon based solely on what was shown in the three movies. So... not canon.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Legends
Lucasfilms specifically declared that the Expanded Universe was now non-canon which implies that up until that point it had been.
Lucasfiles did that AFTER it was acquired by Disney and canon already existed. Lucasfilm can't determine canon after the fact. Canon already exists.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@kelly said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
Now all that said, I'm guessing you're talking about the books. Sure, There is the Legacy Series (as it's now called by Disney, previously called the EU) that had Han Solo alive after this time frame.. but I did limit my comment to canon movies/shows. Which Disney has kept all movies and (as far as I know) TV shows congruent.
Right, Disney acted as if the real canon didn't exist and made a new Disney Canon based solely on what was shown in the three movies. So... not canon.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Legends
Lucasfilms specifically declared that the Expanded Universe was now non-canon which implies that up until that point it had been.
Lucasfiles did that AFTER it was acquired by Disney and canon already existed. Lucasfilm can't determine canon after the fact. Canon already exists.
Yeah, my post was unclear. It was in 2014. Pissed me off to no end.
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@kelly said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@kelly said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
Now all that said, I'm guessing you're talking about the books. Sure, There is the Legacy Series (as it's now called by Disney, previously called the EU) that had Han Solo alive after this time frame.. but I did limit my comment to canon movies/shows. Which Disney has kept all movies and (as far as I know) TV shows congruent.
Right, Disney acted as if the real canon didn't exist and made a new Disney Canon based solely on what was shown in the three movies. So... not canon.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_Legends
Lucasfilms specifically declared that the Expanded Universe was now non-canon which implies that up until that point it had been.
Lucasfiles did that AFTER it was acquired by Disney and canon already existed. Lucasfilm can't determine canon after the fact. Canon already exists.
Yeah, my post was unclear. It was in 2014. Pissed me off to no end.
Yeah, the canon was set by Lucas himself in the 1990s. Now they are trying to rewrite the entire storyline and make a new canon. That's exactly what the term canon means can't happen.
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In reality, Disney, and loads of fans, don't like the real Star Wars story and want a new, more exciting one. I consider it a sort of "anti-fan" base. People who kind of like the idea of Star Wars but dislike the actual thing, so forked something off of it to suit their needs. So people directly undermining the actual thing because, at the end of the day, they didn't really like Star Wars.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
Now you've totally lost me. Han was alive at the end of Episode 6 (Return of the Jedi), and there have been no movies or TV shows about the time period between EP6 and EP7, and there are no movies or TV shows after EP7 currently released that would have shown Han alive, so I don't know what you're talking about.
Lucas authorized books that were canon specifically for episodes 7, 8 and 9. Anything outside of those, is not canon.
OK, now that's news to me. I'm going to assume you mean the Thrawn Triology (can't think of another triology that would qualify) and those books were never called EP7-9. In fact everything I ever read said that George Lucas specifically said that the Thrawn Triology was not EP7-9.
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@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
Now you've totally lost me. Han was alive at the end of Episode 6 (Return of the Jedi), and there have been no movies or TV shows about the time period between EP6 and EP7, and there are no movies or TV shows after EP7 currently released that would have shown Han alive, so I don't know what you're talking about.
Lucas authorized books that were canon specifically for episodes 7, 8 and 9. Anything outside of those, is not canon.
OK, now that's news to me. I'm going to assume you mean the Thrawn Triology (can't think of another triology that would qualify) and those books were never called EP7-9. In fact everything I ever read said that George Lucas specifically said that the Thrawn Triology was not EP7-9.
He never said they were Ep7-9, but until 2014 they were considered canon.
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@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
Now you've totally lost me. Han was alive at the end of Episode 6 (Return of the Jedi), and there have been no movies or TV shows about the time period between EP6 and EP7, and there are no movies or TV shows after EP7 currently released that would have shown Han alive, so I don't know what you're talking about.
Lucas authorized books that were canon specifically for episodes 7, 8 and 9. Anything outside of those, is not canon.
OK, now that's news to me. I'm going to assume you mean the Thrawn Triology (can't think of another triology that would qualify) and those books were never called EP7-9. In fact everything I ever read said that George Lucas specifically said that the Thrawn Triology was not EP7-9.
At the time of release, what made them important was that they were the three episodes. Lucas had declared that no movies would ever be made of episodes 7-9 and that the books were the stories from them. It was a big deal and cemented that the Disney movies could never be canon or episodes 7-9. Not of Star Wars. The Disney movies with the Star Wars brand are canon of a non-Star Wars fan fiction series.
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@kelly said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
Now you've totally lost me. Han was alive at the end of Episode 6 (Return of the Jedi), and there have been no movies or TV shows about the time period between EP6 and EP7, and there are no movies or TV shows after EP7 currently released that would have shown Han alive, so I don't know what you're talking about.
Lucas authorized books that were canon specifically for episodes 7, 8 and 9. Anything outside of those, is not canon.
OK, now that's news to me. I'm going to assume you mean the Thrawn Triology (can't think of another triology that would qualify) and those books were never called EP7-9. In fact everything I ever read said that George Lucas specifically said that the Thrawn Triology was not EP7-9.
He never said they were Ep7-9, but until 2014 they were considered canon.
Not sure I'd agree with that - they were considered EU for sure - depending on who you ask as far as canon status.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
Now you've totally lost me. Han was alive at the end of Episode 6 (Return of the Jedi), and there have been no movies or TV shows about the time period between EP6 and EP7, and there are no movies or TV shows after EP7 currently released that would have shown Han alive, so I don't know what you're talking about.
Lucas authorized books that were canon specifically for episodes 7, 8 and 9. Anything outside of those, is not canon.
OK, now that's news to me. I'm going to assume you mean the Thrawn Triology (can't think of another triology that would qualify) and those books were never called EP7-9. In fact everything I ever read said that George Lucas specifically said that the Thrawn Triology was not EP7-9.
At the time of release, what made them important was that they were the three episodes. Lucas had declared that no movies would ever be made of episodes 7-9 and that the books were the stories from them. It was a big deal and cemented that the Disney movies could never be canon or episodes 7-9. Not of Star Wars. The Disney movies with the Star Wars brand are canon of a non-Star Wars fan fiction series.
huh - wow... that's like saying someone can't ever change their mind.
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@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@kelly said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
Now you've totally lost me. Han was alive at the end of Episode 6 (Return of the Jedi), and there have been no movies or TV shows about the time period between EP6 and EP7, and there are no movies or TV shows after EP7 currently released that would have shown Han alive, so I don't know what you're talking about.
Lucas authorized books that were canon specifically for episodes 7, 8 and 9. Anything outside of those, is not canon.
OK, now that's news to me. I'm going to assume you mean the Thrawn Triology (can't think of another triology that would qualify) and those books were never called EP7-9. In fact everything I ever read said that George Lucas specifically said that the Thrawn Triology was not EP7-9.
He never said they were Ep7-9, but until 2014 they were considered canon.
Not sure I'd agree with that - they were considered EU for sure - depending on who you ask as far as canon status.
EU was canon.
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@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
Now you've totally lost me. Han was alive at the end of Episode 6 (Return of the Jedi), and there have been no movies or TV shows about the time period between EP6 and EP7, and there are no movies or TV shows after EP7 currently released that would have shown Han alive, so I don't know what you're talking about.
Lucas authorized books that were canon specifically for episodes 7, 8 and 9. Anything outside of those, is not canon.
OK, now that's news to me. I'm going to assume you mean the Thrawn Triology (can't think of another triology that would qualify) and those books were never called EP7-9. In fact everything I ever read said that George Lucas specifically said that the Thrawn Triology was not EP7-9.
At the time of release, what made them important was that they were the three episodes. Lucas had declared that no movies would ever be made of episodes 7-9 and that the books were the stories from them. It was a big deal and cemented that the Disney movies could never be canon or episodes 7-9. Not of Star Wars. The Disney movies with the Star Wars brand are canon of a non-Star Wars fan fiction series.
huh - wow... that's like saying someone can't ever change their mind.
You can't as far as story canon goes. That's the POINT of canon.
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What do we feel canon even is, if people just change it to suit the needs of every new release? That's like saying that you can change the past. The idea of a story or universe canon is that it is what the universe IS. So if it can change, it stops being a history and starts being an opinion. Now anyone can determine their own, rather than the author.
Here, I'll try it. Harry Potter died as a baby. It's canon, I said so. Did that change the author's universe?
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
What do we feel canon even is, if people just change it to suit the needs of every new release? That's like saying that you can change the past. The idea of a story or universe canon is that it is what the universe IS. So if it can change, it stops being a history and starts being an opinion. Now anyone can determine their own, rather than the author.
Here, I'll try it. Harry Potter died as a baby. It's canon, I said so. Did that change the author's universe?
In the case of SW, I consider LFL the owners of that story now, not GL... so yes, you can do this. If GL didn't want his story to have a different 7-9, he shouldn't have sold it.
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@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
What do we feel canon even is, if people just change it to suit the needs of every new release? That's like saying that you can change the past. The idea of a story or universe canon is that it is what the universe IS. So if it can change, it stops being a history and starts being an opinion. Now anyone can determine their own, rather than the author.
Here, I'll try it. Harry Potter died as a baby. It's canon, I said so. Did that change the author's universe?
In the case of SW, I consider LFL the owners of that story now, not GL... so yes, you can do this. If GL didn't want his story to have a different 7-9, he shouldn't have sold it.
Star Wars was a lot bigger than GL, and a lot better for his absence. There was a lot of energy poured into the EU to make it something amazing and coherent (after the first few years at least). It was a very crappy move to simply drop it.
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@kelly said in What Are You Watching Now:
@dashrender said in What Are You Watching Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Watching Now:
What do we feel canon even is, if people just change it to suit the needs of every new release? That's like saying that you can change the past. The idea of a story or universe canon is that it is what the universe IS. So if it can change, it stops being a history and starts being an opinion. Now anyone can determine their own, rather than the author.
Here, I'll try it. Harry Potter died as a baby. It's canon, I said so. Did that change the author's universe?
In the case of SW, I consider LFL the owners of that story now, not GL... so yes, you can do this. If GL didn't want his story to have a different 7-9, he shouldn't have sold it.
Star Wars was a lot bigger than GL, and a lot better for his absence. There was a lot of energy poured into the EU to make it something amazing and coherent (after the first few years at least). It was a very crappy move to simply drop it.
I agree - LFL had a team of 2 people (I met them) who's job it was to make sure things stayed correctly coherent. For Disney to just toss that, ug.
That said, I can also understand that considering the age of the current actors, it might not have been desirable to make an existing story at the correct timeline.
