Finding the Best Open Source Email Solutions



  • @mcostan said in Finding the Best Open Source Email Solutions:

    That said I have no choice anyway as kopano gives me the functionality that I need, Zimbra does NOT.

    No one has implied that there is something wrong about that. All we did was push forward with a lot more testing than we normally would have done because you spoke so highly of it. And what we found was that it did not appear to be production ready. In no way does that imply that it can't be installed on Debian or that it doesn't work for you. So I'm unclear of why you keep pushing the point when we've not argued with you.



  • Reasons that we found it to be lacking:

    • No working docs
    • No working install on an enterprise, supported OS

    Where we are now:

    • Documenting the failures individually for Kopano
    • Have posted in their community for them to follow up


  • well, you posted something on their forum to say that it doesn't install on an Ubuntu platform that they do not support...

    It's like saying that I can't get Microsoft Excel to work in Linux?



  • @mcostan said in Finding the Best Open Source Email Solutions:

    well, you posted something on their forum to say that it doesn't install on an Ubuntu platform that they do not support...

    I also posted about CentOS, and am making a dedicated thread for it, too. Which is the one that they claim that they support.



  • @mcostan said in Finding the Best Open Source Email Solutions:

    well, you posted something on their forum to say that it doesn't install on an Ubuntu platform that they do not support...

    https://forum.kopano.io/topic/47/kopano-core-install-fails-on-centos-7-due-to-missing-package



  • @mcostan said in Finding the Best Open Source Email Solutions:

    well, you posted something on their forum to say that it doesn't install on an Ubuntu platform that they do not support...

    But the issue is... do they support anything we consider production ready? You make it sound like an unreasonable thing to want.



  • @scottalanmiller

    Agreed, your postings now referring to Centos 7 are absolutely fine.

    You should get some feedback from the community at some stage.

    Note that (I am not the expert here so apologies if I get this wrong) from what I understand Zimbra gives you the community edition which is a cut down version of the production ones (i.e. you have to pay for it otherwise), whilst Kopano gives you everything in the community edition with no restrictions but you either get the sourcecode or the mainline builds.

    For me I cannot use Zimbra as I cannot pay for the features I need (and perhaps they wouldn't be there anyway), so I need Kopano. But clearly I am taking the mainline branch and although I never have had issues before, there may be for what I know.

    Therefore if you did take the official Kopano packages and install them, i.e. the branched releases, I am pretty sure they would be spot on.

    I tend to run two parallel environments, one Kopano production and one with the latest community edition which I take regularly. When I am satisfied it is all fine, I move it to production.



  • @scottalanmiller

    as I said what you see in the community download section is the mainline branch. Not the production releases. If you want those, you pay for them.



  • @mcostan said in Finding the Best Open Source Email Solutions:

    @scottalanmiller

    Agreed, your postings now referring to Centos 7 are absolutely fine.

    You should get some feedback from the community at some stage.

    They seem active, that is good.



  • @scottalanmiller

    As I said I never had any issues with support from them from the forums or directly. Even if I am just a community user (i.e. I do not pay) they always helped me out even directly from the developers.



  • All of their community buttons are backwards from ours, it's killing me, lol.



  • Unfortunately I'm getting only the "run another distro" run around that so often happens on these things. We try Ubuntu "well if you want support you should have run CentOS". So we try CentOS "well it works on Ubuntu". No one is actually providing assistance yet, just lots of people confused about Linux or just posting "well you should be using this" which was already tested and didn't work. Hopefully the developers are active, too.



  • @scottalanmiller

    put it this way: I do run it and it works. And if they reply it means that they do have customers as they are paying the employees to reply to you.

    And yes, there are developers as they reply too (perhaps not to you in this instance but they are active).



  • @mcostan said in Finding the Best Open Source Email Solutions:

    @scottalanmiller

    put it this way: I do run it and it works. And if they reply it means that they do have customers as they are paying the employees to reply to you.

    Everyone here isn't paid. Lots of developers that aren't paid respond to communities. It probably means that they have paid people responding, but it doesn't guarantee that.



  • Most of the developers that respond on the NodeBB forums themselves are volunteers, only three are paid, for example. All three of those respond quickly, for sure, but lots of others do, too.



  • @scottalanmiller

    sure, paid or unpaid the product works for me. In fact every posting you do I get a notification by email via mobile phone activesync z-push that you have done so 🙂

    So all good for me.



  • This seems to sum up what I see in the Kopano community thus far....

    "If you want a working version, pay up."

    No one is being helpful, just all pushing for payment.



  • @scottalanmiller

    Would you like a free unpaid login on my u paid community edition installed and working?

    We can have an unpaid video conference?



  • @mcostan said in Finding the Best Open Source Email Solutions:

    @scottalanmiller

    Would you like a free unpaid login on my u paid community edition installed and working?

    We can have an unpaid video conference?

    I'm not doubting that it can be made to work. What I want is a stable, repeatable, official installation method for CentOS 7 for it. Or I'd accept Ubuntu 16.10 or FreeBSD. I want something that I can stick in Salt or Ansible and be confident that will work, will work in the future and is intended to work from the community. Maybe that is asking a lot, but nothing I don't expect from every product that we work with. Zimbra does this and has for almost fifteen years, for example. Rocket.Chat does this. NodeBB does this. Just looking for Kopano to be at that minimum bar before moving forward with product evaluation.



  • Patrick made it clear in the community... pay up or get lost. I'm out. The community alone is a reason to avoid it.



  • @scottalanmiller

    Except of course Zimbra lacks the features that Kopano has. And that I need.



  • @scottalanmiller

    The community and the product work great for me. I have no idea who Patrick is perhaps a paying user.

    I am not a paying user and it works for me



  • @mcostan said in Finding the Best Open Source Email Solutions:

    @scottalanmiller

    Except of course Zimbra lacks the features that Kopano has. And that I need.

    And vice versa for us 🙂 Kopano has LDAP support, that I know. And Zimbra does not. We don't need that (right now at least) so not an issue. But we do need something we can really trust and we know that Zimbra delivers there, no question. Rock solid with a track record for it.

    What other features is Kopano delivering that Zimbra lacks? We might have covered this before. Kopano looks to have the slicker interface now. I don't care if it is all CLI management, I'm happy to manage either system from Salt if it comes to it. That's almost a positive, no GUI to slow us down.



  • Notice, the one thread where we did it first, where we followed the docs to the T, used the recommended OS... not one comment, not even a "I'll look into this." But the other threads where we looked for other options when CentOS didn't work were pretty quick to point out that we should be using CentOS and ignoring the fact that we were only looking at the others because it didn't work.

    https://forum.kopano.io/topic/47/kopano-core-install-fails-on-centos-7-due-to-missing-package

    It's nice that people are responding. But one guy made it clear that if we weren't paying we weren't welcome in the community. Another just gave us an obvious run around to try to make it look like it was our fault. And another wanted to know what cloud hosting was and why we'd want enterprise OSes. Other than the manual getting updated (we found several manual mistakes as newbies) the community has been way less than helpful.



  • @mcostan said in Finding the Best Open Source Email Solutions:

    @scottalanmiller

    The community and the product work great for me. I have no idea who Patrick is perhaps a paying user.

    I am not a paying user and it works for me

    I doubt he's a paying user. My guess is an employee who takes offense to anyone questioning the product. He was extremely emotional as a first response. Very angry that we'd want the product to work without having paid for it.



  • @mcostan I really do appreciate all of the insight and feedback and pointing us to the community. The community has been very helpful in the process already. I'm glad that the product is working for you and if you want to demo it sometime I'd be happy to watch. Remote session isn't possible given my crappy connection, but a screencap would be awesome. A thread on it would be even better. Show it off, talk about why you like it!



  • Funny bits... our thread on Ubuntu 16.10 support is already the number one thread, of all time, for Kopano's forums. And I'm the number two all time community member.



  • @scottalanmiller

    Hi, My use is perhaps not the usual user so I do understand if perhaps you do not need any of the following.

    I tend to work away from the office quite a lot and I work on desktops which aren't mine, but at the client site, therefore I cannot install anything on their PC.

    Therefore I need a fully integrated solution which I can replicate in the same way at home as when I am (mostly the case) on site.

    That includes:

    a) email of course
    b) activesync support for mobile devices (free with z-push). As I have all the mobile phones synced in native protocol. This way I have everything synced on the mobile phones, including tasks, notes, contacts, email etc. etc. Natively.
    c) Outlook 2016 support with Exchange integration (not IMAP, but proper activesync) (comes again with z-push). When I go home I use Outlook 2016 and I tend to see that activesync and full integration is a lot better than IMAP.
    d) very important for me. Cloud storage integrated with the main webapp application. I can create e-mails from attachments to and from the cloud and when I get back home, my main PC has the files on the cloud itself. It's all integrated in webapp. I have owncloud running and I can see my files everywhere I go, within the application. They are remotely synced on the main server and on the phone when I need.
    e) chat (mostly) and videoconferencing which I do with the people who are at another site. Again it needs to be embedded in the same application, not requiring any plugins or software to be installed, but simply work out of the box within Chrome or Firefox (webmeetings).

    My understanding of Zimbra is rather limited and I am sure some of them may be available in one shape or other. However, I did stop looking and investigating when I looked at the following webpage:

    https://www.zimbra.com/email-server-software/product-edition-comparison/

    And realised that most of what I need is either only in the paid editions or even in the paid editions you still have to pay for it (e.g. zimbra talk).

    My usage is too limited for me to justify buying a license.

    In addition as you say the Kopano application looks a lot slicker at least from the demos and screenshots I have seen of Zimbra.

    All the features I have listed above are downloadable for you at the Kopano community site.

    Who knows, there may be some teething issues (that I do not have perhaps right now) but I get the entire software and it works for me. I get the entire packages and integration with cloud, web conferencing etc. etc.

    I do understand if your needs are different and you are looking for something else.

    That's why perhaps there is more than one product on the market to satisfy different needs.

    As I said I did look at Zimbra but it is simply lacking the features (at least in the community edition) and I cannot use it. If it did, I'd be very happy to use it.

    There may be public domains or whatever plugins to make Zimbra look or have those features, I am not sure, perhaps, but then, I am familiar with Kopano, I'll stick to it.



  • @scottalanmiller
    See my reply separately.

    I would advise you to go to www.kopano.com

    look at the demo video, the actual product demo, and the products.



  • @mcostan
    Ah, sorry, and the delayed delivery plugin which is very useful at least to me. It is very simple, but allows me to write emails over the weekend and set the time when they will go out during the week at my preferred time.

    Again I am sure useful for me and perhaps not for you.