Is it right or is it theft/fraud?
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This is similar to pharmaceutical sales reps. they aren't allowed to take a doctor out to dinner, but can have a dinner meeting with a doctor.
It's a gray area, and if you don't plan to go with their solution (because of price), then the wine and dinning events do nothing but to make it seem even more shady.
Now if you have some other information as to what product type we're discussing it might be an easy yes or no. But I personally would take their free dinner and movie, you don't have to sleep with them.
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It's not theft or fraud at all.
Your obligations as a customer ended with the quotation and the proposed solution, if they as a vendor randomly give you a gift, why turn it down?
Where it would be fraudulent is if you screwed over your business by picking their solution purely because they gave you some free candy compared with the other guys.
The right thing to do is to say, we're probably going with the other solution in advance. If they withdraw the invitation no harm done but if they still want to get you in a room to persuade you then that's entirely their choice, enjoy the evening.
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In banking, you aren't allowed to accept any gifts worth over $20. I also believe it is wrong morally to do it.
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My company has an actual policy on this. Basically the office manager gets to decide if you can partake.
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Don't deny the vendor the opportunity to use everything at their behest to win your business. Take the tickets, go to the dinner, whatever it is, because they have budgeted that as a sales expenditure. Don't mislead them by saying you're still undecided, but let them try to woo you.
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This is definitely a moral gray area. Personally, I feel like it would depend on the situation. I've done sales/marketing calls for products I knew I had no power to work towards buying or had any influence towards getting purchased. My thought process was that if I listen to their spiel, get a free t-shirt or whatever, and don't buy now, there's no guarantee I won't buy from them for a different reason, maybe in a different position, in the future. Events, dinners, etc are more about establishing report with the potential customer. I use opportunities like that to get a feel for their sales process and the like. If I like how things sound, and I get a good feel from the people, that tells me a lot, and I've had opportunities where I was treated well in the past and didn't do anything with that product/company at the time, but in later positions, I went back to them and we did business. So do I think it's personally wrong? Not inherently. It really depends on the motivation behind it. For me, I view it as a networking opportunity, and that is rarely a bad investment.
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There is no such thing as a free lunch. If they take you out to eat you have to listen to their spiel and they feel like they have the right to bombard you with emails and calls because they took you out to dinner or whatever.
I don't like sales people and I don't want them to feel like I ever like them or owe them anything. I'll spend the $10 to go get myself lunch and not feel any obligation to the scum of the earth.
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@NerdyDad said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
If you knew that you probably aren't going to go with a vendor that is sponsoring an exclusive event, would you go to said event?
Well no, but mostly because I feel badly. It's part of their marketing budget, though, and there is nothing unethical about going anymore than accepting a brochure from them or watching an ad on television. They pay for a ton of marketing to people who would never consider the product, that is their decision. As long as you are not lying and saying that you are considering them when you are not, no reason not to accept.
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@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
In banking, you aren't allowed to accept any gifts worth over $20. I also believe it is wrong morally to do it.
That's not true. Gifts are commonly enormous in banking. I've definitely had $5,000 (per head) dinners.
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@Dashrender said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
My company has an actual policy on this. Basically the office manager gets to decide if you can partake.
That's very common, lots of companies have policies on it, so many, in fact, that I wonder how often they can even do the things like this.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
In banking, you aren't allowed to accept any gifts worth over $20. I also believe it is wrong morally to do it.
That's not true. Gifts are commonly enormous in banking. I've definitely had $5,000 (per head) dinners.
The mandatory compliance training (handled by a 3rd party vendor) goes over bribery every year.
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@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
In banking, you aren't allowed to accept any gifts worth over $20. I also believe it is wrong morally to do it.
That's not true. Gifts are commonly enormous in banking. I've definitely had $5,000 (per head) dinners.
The mandatory compliance training (handled by a 3rd party vendor) goes over bribery every year.
Sure, but it doesn't apply to banking in general. Just a specific company or type. Banking, in general, has no such limitations.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
In banking, you aren't allowed to accept any gifts worth over $20. I also believe it is wrong morally to do it.
That's not true. Gifts are commonly enormous in banking. I've definitely had $5,000 (per head) dinners.
The mandatory compliance training (handled by a 3rd party vendor) goes over bribery every year.
Sure, but it doesn't apply to banking in general. Just a specific company or type. Banking, in general, has no such limitations.
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I've definitely worked in banks that wouldn't even allow vendors to buy you lunch. But that's an internal policy, not a general banking one.
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@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
In banking, you aren't allowed to accept any gifts worth over $20. I also believe it is wrong morally to do it.
That's not true. Gifts are commonly enormous in banking. I've definitely had $5,000 (per head) dinners.
The mandatory compliance training (handled by a 3rd party vendor) goes over bribery every year.
Sure, but it doesn't apply to banking in general. Just a specific company or type. Banking, in general, has no such limitations.
Exactly, it's an FDIC rule, which doesn't apply to the majority of banking. Only certain types of banks are part of the FDIC in the US.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
In banking, you aren't allowed to accept any gifts worth over $20. I also believe it is wrong morally to do it.
That's not true. Gifts are commonly enormous in banking. I've definitely had $5,000 (per head) dinners.
The mandatory compliance training (handled by a 3rd party vendor) goes over bribery every year.
Sure, but it doesn't apply to banking in general. Just a specific company or type. Banking, in general, has no such limitations.
Exactly, it's an FDIC rule, which doesn't apply to the majority of banking. Only certain types of banks are part of the FDIC in the US.
ah ok.
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@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
@IRJ said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
In banking, you aren't allowed to accept any gifts worth over $20. I also believe it is wrong morally to do it.
That's not true. Gifts are commonly enormous in banking. I've definitely had $5,000 (per head) dinners.
The mandatory compliance training (handled by a 3rd party vendor) goes over bribery every year.
Sure, but it doesn't apply to banking in general. Just a specific company or type. Banking, in general, has no such limitations.
Exactly, it's an FDIC rule, which doesn't apply to the majority of banking. Only certain types of banks are part of the FDIC in the US.
ah ok.
Investment banking, has almost no rules. It's the wild west. -
- Depends on which teams are playing at the game they're offering.
- Do it anyways. As explained earlier, it's set aside in their marketing budget, so you shouldn't have any moral qualms about it.
- For real though, who is playing?
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What's funny is that for me, going to a sporting event or a movie is a punishment, not a reward. Making me sit through a sporting event had better come with a pretty big alcohol budget.
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@scottalanmiller said in Is it right or is it theft/fraud?:
What's funny is that for me, going to a sporting event or a movie is a punishment, not a reward. Making me sit through a sporting event had better come with a pretty big alcohol budget.
I've been to a few with a friend who worked for a big time insurance company when they didn't have any clients to take, and we were always in box seats with an open bar.
One time, as part of a new promotion package from STAPLES Center, my friend and I got to sit in between the benches during a Kings game. It was so awesome.
