No Longer Salaried.


  • Banned

    Starting after thanksgiving all IT will be hourly here. Legal has review the laws and determine that only software developers not network and systems administrators. Any other companies decided this recently? too bad since they found it to be illegal for us to be salaried now we don't get back pay for all those 18hr days.



  • With the recent overtime guidelines some of our lowest paid staff are getting a salary bump (so they will be exempt from the new overtime rules).


  • Banned

    @coliver said in No Longer Salaried.:

    With the recent overtime guidelines some of our lowest paid staff are getting a salary bump (so they will be exempt from the new overtime rules).

    Ours isn't from that. They were reviewing the new pay restrictions and took the opportunity to look over it all and realized the wording for FLSA exempt computer work means developers only.

    This page:

    https://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime/fs17e_computer.pdf



  • Apparently, nothing is changing for us here. I think we all got a little salary bump to simply not have to deal with it. I'm like $3 over the limit, lol.



  • why is the exempt hourly rate more than 2x the salary rate? 455/week salary vs 1k+ a week hourly.


  • Banned

    @dafyre said in No Longer Salaried.:

    Apparently, nothing is changing for us here. I think we all got a little salary bump to simply not have to deal with it. I'm like $3 over the limit, lol.

    They say even under the old requirements only software developers are suppose to be salaried not Network administrators based on this PDF: https://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime/fs17e_computer.pdf

    We exceed the pay requirements by a long shot the new one is only $47k. legal just says Technically Network and systems administrators don't fall under that description. Software developers do and possibly desktop technicians.



  • @Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:

    @dafyre said in No Longer Salaried.:

    Apparently, nothing is changing for us here. I think we all got a little salary bump to simply not have to deal with it. I'm like $3 over the limit, lol.

    They say even under the old requirements only software developers are suppose to be salaried not Network administrators based on this PDF: https://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime/fs17e_computer.pdf

    We exceed the pay requirements by a long shot the new one is only $47k. legal just says Technically Network and systems administrators don't fall under that description. Software developers do and possibly desktop technicians.

    That would be an odd decision since it doesn't regulate salaried versus hourly, only exempt versus non-exempt. So going hourly will cost them money unless the people are under the limit for exemption. The only advantage to the company happens if you are making more than the one upper exemption limit but below the other.


  • Banned

    @StrongBad said in No Longer Salaried.:

    @Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:

    @dafyre said in No Longer Salaried.:

    Apparently, nothing is changing for us here. I think we all got a little salary bump to simply not have to deal with it. I'm like $3 over the limit, lol.

    They say even under the old requirements only software developers are suppose to be salaried not Network administrators based on this PDF: https://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime/fs17e_computer.pdf

    We exceed the pay requirements by a long shot the new one is only $47k. legal just says Technically Network and systems administrators don't fall under that description. Software developers do and possibly desktop technicians.

    That would be an odd decision since it doesn't regulate salaried versus hourly, only exempt versus non-exempt. So going hourly will cost them money unless the people are under the limit for exemption. The only advantage to the company happens if you are making more than the one upper exemption limit but below the other.

    Exempt vs Non-Exempt FLSA is normally what you call hourly vs salaried. if you are exempt you are salaried, if you aren't you're hourly.



  • @Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:

    @StrongBad said in No Longer Salaried.:

    @Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:

    @dafyre said in No Longer Salaried.:

    Apparently, nothing is changing for us here. I think we all got a little salary bump to simply not have to deal with it. I'm like $3 over the limit, lol.

    They say even under the old requirements only software developers are suppose to be salaried not Network administrators based on this PDF: https://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime/fs17e_computer.pdf

    We exceed the pay requirements by a long shot the new one is only $47k. legal just says Technically Network and systems administrators don't fall under that description. Software developers do and possibly desktop technicians.

    That would be an odd decision since it doesn't regulate salaried versus hourly, only exempt versus non-exempt. So going hourly will cost them money unless the people are under the limit for exemption. The only advantage to the company happens if you are making more than the one upper exemption limit but below the other.

    Exempt vs Non-Exempt FLSA is normally what you call hourly vs salaried. if you are exempt you are salaried, if you aren't you're hourly.

    You can be hourly or salaried, exempt or non-exempt. Both can be both. There is no connection between the two. I've been all four at different points in my career. Exempt hourly is common in the Fortune 100 because they like to have people on hours for flexibility and to make them feel better about bursting to 80+ hour weeks, but when you make enterprise level rates you are generally exempt as hourly anyway. So no overtime, just straight pay. But you can salary someone at minimum wage if you want, but if you do and they go over 40 hours, you have to pay overtime. So people generally don't do that because it's a pain to track and report for people not recording hours.



  • @momurda said in No Longer Salaried.:

    why is the exempt hourly rate more than 2x the salary rate? 455/week salary vs 1k+ a week hourly.

    Because they REALLY don't want people being salaried below the exemption rates. It gets messy, but it is there for when it is needed.


  • Banned

    Most HR lawyers state that if you pay hourly you are not allowed to be exempt. That's having it both ways. - The employer gets to only pay you for the hours you worked but no more than 40hrs paid no matter what.

    http://www.hrknowledge.com/human-resources-can-you-pay-an-exempt-employee-on-an-hourly-basis/

    http://www.c2essentials.com/flsa-misclassification-hourly-exempt-employees/



  • @scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:

    @momurda said in No Longer Salaried.:

    why is the exempt hourly rate more than 2x the salary rate? 455/week salary vs 1k+ a week hourly.

    Because they REALLY don't want people being salaried below the exemption rates. It gets messy, but it is there for when it is needed.

    Why not just have a company track hours regardless? I guess the answer to that is the expense in tracking it.



  • @Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:

    Most HR lawyers state that if you pay hourly you are not allowed to be exempt. That's having it both ways. - The employer gets to only pay you for the hours you worked but no more than 40hrs paid no matter what.

    Hourly can definitely be exempt. But there is obviously no cap at 40 hours, where did that idea come from? Hourly means you pay for every hour. Exempt means that you don't pay overtime. There is nothing related to the forty hours in what I said.

    Here is how non-exempt hourly works....

    Work 40 hours a week, paid 40 x hourly rate.
    Work 60 hours a week, paid 40 x hourly rate + 20 x hourly rate x 1.5.

    And exempt hourly...

    Work 40 hours a week, paid 40 x hourly rate.
    Work 60 hours a week, paid 60 x hourly rate.

    Hourly means that you get paid for every hour. Exempt has to do with the overtime bit. When you are salaried and have to deal with being non-exempt you get weird issues because you have to be paid for the time plus the overtime when you go too high. It's very complex and basically never worth it. But hourly exempt is very common and normal and doesn't cause any problems. At the big Wall St, banks, for example, hourly exempt is probably the most common thing that you see because they want to pay by the hour and let you work tons and tons if you want, but they don't want to pay time and a half for it.



  • @Dashrender said in No Longer Salaried.:

    @scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:

    @momurda said in No Longer Salaried.:

    why is the exempt hourly rate more than 2x the salary rate? 455/week salary vs 1k+ a week hourly.

    Because they REALLY don't want people being salaried below the exemption rates. It gets messy, but it is there for when it is needed.

    Why not just have a company track hours regardless? I guess the answer to that is the expense in tracking it.

    It's a huge expense and the idea is that hourly and salaried track different ways of working. For example, admins should be hourly, engineers should be salaried (in general, always an exception.) Because one you pay for their "time of being available" and the other you pay for their "thought processes."


  • Banned

    @scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:

    And exempt hourly...

    Work 40 hours a week, paid 40 x hourly rate.
    Work 60 hours a week, paid 40 x hourly rate.

    And that is exactly what I said you are capped at the pay of 40hrs. but if you work less than 40hrs you are still paid less than 40.



  • @scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:

    At the big Wall St, banks, for example, hourly exempt is probably the most common thing that you see because they want to pay by the hour and let you work tons and tons if you want, but they don't want to pay time and a half for it.

    What are the regs for hourly - exempt?



  • @Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:

    @scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:

    And exempt hourly...

    Work 40 hours a week, paid 40 x hourly rate.
    Work 60 hours a week, paid 40 x hourly rate.

    And that is exactly what I said you are capped at the pay of 40hrs. but if you work less than 40hrs you are still paid less than 40.

    I fixed that, it was a typo. I fixed it a bit before you responded but you must have had it cached.



  • @Dashrender said in No Longer Salaried.:

    @scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:

    At the big Wall St, banks, for example, hourly exempt is probably the most common thing that you see because they want to pay by the hour and let you work tons and tons if you want, but they don't want to pay time and a half for it.

    What are the regs for hourly - exempt?

    There is a floor pay rate, once above that there is no requirement to pay more. The idea of "time and a half" doesn't exist, so it's not overtime, it's just time.



  • @scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:

    @Dashrender said in No Longer Salaried.:

    @scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:

    At the big Wall St, banks, for example, hourly exempt is probably the most common thing that you see because they want to pay by the hour and let you work tons and tons if you want, but they don't want to pay time and a half for it.

    What are the regs for hourly - exempt?

    There is a floor pay rate, once above that there is no requirement to pay more. The idea of "time and a half" doesn't exist, so it's not overtime, it's just time.

    What is that floor?


  • Banned

    So the question is why is almost every company treating every IT position as exempt when they shouldn't be?

    according to the description only consultants & software developers can be.



  • @Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:

    @scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:

    And exempt hourly...

    Work 40 hours a week, paid 40 x hourly rate.
    Work 60 hours a week, paid 40 x hourly rate.

    This above is actually called a weekly rate, it's neither hourly nor salaried. I've seen a lot of places do "day rate" where you get paid X per day, regardless of work done. Or day rate + hourly which gets really confusing.



  • @Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:

    So the question is why is almost every company treating every IT position as exempt when they should be?

    Everyone wants to treat people as exempt because it's by far the easiest to deal with and potentially pays the least. Especially if you can get availability based jobs listed under exempt you can work them to the bone because they can never get away.


  • Banned

    @scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:

    @Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:

    So the question is why is almost every company treating every IT position as exempt when they should be?

    Everyone wants to treat people as exempt because it's by far the easiest to deal with and potentially pays the least. Especially if you can get availability based jobs listed under exempt you can work them to the bone because they can never get away.

    That may be changing. I know us and GE both made this change based on lawyers recommendations.



  • @Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:

    @scottalanmiller said in No Longer Salaried.:

    @Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:

    So the question is why is almost every company treating every IT position as exempt when they should be?

    Everyone wants to treat people as exempt because it's by far the easiest to deal with and potentially pays the least. Especially if you can get availability based jobs listed under exempt you can work them to the bone because they can never get away.

    That may be changing. I know us and GE both made this change based on lawyers recommendations.

    And that's why Wall St. basically across the board does hourly for admins (and helpdesk and other stuff) even when exempt, because it just makes sense. Pay the people doing 70 hours more than those doing 40 hours, otherwise no one will work more. Even a decade ago, that was standard.



  • Hopefully it changes, but it's always been bad and not allowed. But maybe they are cracking down and catching people more and more. Just like they are with fake 1099 situations which used to be so common but was just a tax dodge.


  • Banned

    Who knows. All I know is we were told to postpone all server upgrades until after thanskgiving when they can pay us overtime for it.



  • @Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:

    Who knows. All I know is we were told to postpone all server upgrades until after thanskgiving when they can pay us overtime for it.

    LOL - wow - I guess they are only doing that to keep from being sued.



  • @Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:

    Who knows. All I know is we were told to postpone all server upgrades until after thanskgiving when they can pay us overtime for it.

    While the postponement sucks, the extra money does not!


  • Banned

    @Dashrender said in No Longer Salaried.:

    @Jason said in No Longer Salaried.:

    Who knows. All I know is we were told to postpone all server upgrades until after thanskgiving when they can pay us overtime for it.

    LOL - wow - I guess they are only doing that to keep from being sued.

    I'm sure that was the primary motivating factor.



  • The other company I mention from time to time ran afoul of this a few years ago.

    They had listed a non technical department as salaried - exempt. the employees complained to the state that they weren't being paid overtime. The state agreed and said the company could declare them as salaried - non exempt.

    The company then said that all employees (in that department) had to start punching a clock. If they didn't put in at least 40 hours, they would be written up and possibly fired.

    Instead of getting OT, people ended up getting fired when they suddenly realized how their late entries to work, long lunches and early going home amounted to them working less than 40 hours regularly.


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