I've lost all hope in Education.


  • Banned

    Three different examples.

    Someone in my family is at school, parents received a report which is laid out like this.

    Current Progress = B
    Current Progress = 2
    Current Progress = F
    Current Progress = 6

    They use numbers and letters interchangeably to grade performance, an entire page of the 2 page report is to explain an arbitrary and overly convoluted system. Busy work for the sake of appearing productive.


    Someone I know who is doing an IT course, is assigned a project to design a system for a retail store, he has been assigned a budget of (fake numbers) 10 dollars but MUST spend at least 8 dollars otherwise the virtual businesses won't give as much money on the next project.

    So people are paying to learn how to do IT properly for a business but are being trained and taught how to aggravate the business and work against it. The businesses are trying to hire candidates to help them but have a pool of people who are taught to work against the business.


    Putting aside the colossal levels of bureaucracy, politician decisions and bad leadership. Which undermines some of the amazing work I've seen happen in education environments. Businesses across the world are unhappy with the education system, yet the system has shown no desire or willingness to change, they are still selling the idea and concept and have not changed the pitch.

    Come here, learn this, get a job because of this.

    It's a bit of a rant/vent but I can't understand this. Where is the sanity?



  • @Breffni-Potter said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    Come here, learn this, get a job because of this.

    It's a bit of a rant/vent but I can't understand this. Where is the sanity?

    Because people still believe this... That's why they haven't changed. They have no need to improve... until they are forced to by an outside actor and those pressures for the most part, although it is changing, aren't there.



  • As someone who is considering going back to college just to complete my AA (to start), I've also been down the road on this... Some folks are telling me that since it has been so long since I did my core classes (english, psych, science, etc) that I may have to take them again.

    My response to that is: Nope. I took them already, and I simply refuse to take them again, even if that means I won't get the degree.



  • In the county where I work most, 40% of jobs are government jobs of some sort. This includes teachers, police, elected officials, etc. That is the population that knows only "spend it or lose it".



  • @coliver said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @Breffni-Potter said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    Come here, learn this, get a job because of this.

    It's a bit of a rant/vent but I can't understand this. Where is the sanity?

    Because people still believe this... That's why they haven't changed. They have no need to improve... until they are forced to by an outside actor and those pressures for the most part, although it is changing, aren't there.

    Because the people we don't want believe this. It's actually beneficial to everyone, even those that don't believe in college. I've been meaning to write this up.



  • @Mike-Davis said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    In the county where I work most, 40% of jobs are government jobs of some sort. This includes teachers, police, elected officials, etc. That is the population that knows only "spend it or lose it".

    Also known as "corruption".



  • @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    As someone who is considering going back to college just to complete my AA (to start), I've also been down the road on this... Some folks are telling me that since it has been so long since I did my core classes (english, psych, science, etc) that I may have to take them again.

    My response to that is: Nope. I took them already, and I simply refuse to take them again, even if that means I won't get the degree.

    Why bother with the non-degree, then? Since college is anti-education, what's the upside without the sheepskin?



  • @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    As someone who is considering going back to college just to complete my AA (to start), I've also been down the road on this... Some folks are telling me that since it has been so long since I did my core classes (english, psych, science, etc) that I may have to take them again.

    My response to that is: Nope. I took them already, and I simply refuse to take them again, even if that means I won't get the degree.

    Why bother with the non-degree, then? Since college is anti-education, what's the upside without the sheepskin?

    I know that you really hate the current educational system and I don't know how exactly getting a job in the US works, but be assured, you will have a very hard time to get a job here without some "sheets of paper", as we like to call it. Its basically like "No college degree? Thanks for your CV, but no.".

    We all know that this is BS at its best, but that's how HR works - at least here. Hell, it's even more like "What, sorry, no, we are looking for 18 years old MSc's only."



  • @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    As someone who is considering going back to college just to complete my AA (to start), I've also been down the road on this... Some folks are telling me that since it has been so long since I did my core classes (english, psych, science, etc) that I may have to take them again.

    My response to that is: Nope. I took them already, and I simply refuse to take them again, even if that means I won't get the degree.

    Why bother with the non-degree, then? Since college is anti-education, what's the upside without the sheepskin?

    Well, in my case, it'd equate to a 5k to 10k/year pay raise at my current job. If I take it using the financial aid available to staff, then I'm only out my time and books... It makes it insanely cheap for me to get the last few classes I need... So I see it as a win. That's the only reason I'd go back for it is a pay raise.



  • @thwr said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    I know that you really hate the current educational system and I don't know how exactly getting a job in the US works, but be assured, you will have a very hard time to get a job here without some "sheets of paper", as we like to call it. Its basically like "No college degree? Thanks for your CV, but no.".

    That's very, very insulting to the German culture. So they put more value on your ability to buy a degree than your ability to demonstrate skills, aptitude or drive?



  • @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    As someone who is considering going back to college just to complete my AA (to start), I've also been down the road on this... Some folks are telling me that since it has been so long since I did my core classes (english, psych, science, etc) that I may have to take them again.

    My response to that is: Nope. I took them already, and I simply refuse to take them again, even if that means I won't get the degree.

    Why bother with the non-degree, then? Since college is anti-education, what's the upside without the sheepskin?

    Well, in my case, it'd equate to a 5k to 10k/year pay raise at my current job. If I take it using the financial aid available to staff, then I'm only out my time and books... It makes it insanely cheap for me to get the last few classes I need... So I see it as a win. That's the only reason I'd go back for it is a pay raise.

    How does it become a raise? Just taking classes gives you a raise? Any classes? ANy number of them?



  • @thwr said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    We all know that this is BS at its best, but that's how HR works - at least here.

    SO everyone knows that HR is intentionally sabotaging the companies, but the companies are scared of HR or too stupid to do something about it and improve their chances of hiring well compared to their competition?

    How does "everyone know" yet "anyone allow" it to keep happening? If everyone knows that they can get better people without letting HR sabotage them, why don't they fire... no wait, SUE the HR people? If they are actively trying to hurt the companies and it's common knowledge, why is no one taking action?



  • @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @thwr said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    I know that you really hate the current educational system and I don't know how exactly getting a job in the US works, but be assured, you will have a very hard time to get a job here without some "sheets of paper", as we like to call it. Its basically like "No college degree? Thanks for your CV, but no.".

    That's very, very insulting to the German culture. So they put more value on your ability to buy a degree than your ability to demonstrate skills, aptitude or drive?

    Kind of, yes



  • @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @thwr said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    We all know that this is BS at its best, but that's how HR works - at least here.

    SO everyone knows that HR is intentionally sabotaging the companies, but the companies are scared of HR or too stupid to do something about it and improve their chances of hiring well compared to their competition?

    How does "everyone know" yet "anyone allow" it to keep happening? If everyone knows that they can get better people without letting HR sabotage them, why don't they fire... no wait, SUE the HR people? If they are actively trying to hurt the companies and it's common knowledge, why is no one taking action?

    I guess it's just a "burned in" culture thing.



  • @thwr said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @thwr said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    We all know that this is BS at its best, but that's how HR works - at least here.

    SO everyone knows that HR is intentionally sabotaging the companies, but the companies are scared of HR or too stupid to do something about it and improve their chances of hiring well compared to their competition?

    How does "everyone know" yet "anyone allow" it to keep happening? If everyone knows that they can get better people without letting HR sabotage them, why don't they fire... no wait, SUE the HR people? If they are actively trying to hurt the companies and it's common knowledge, why is no one taking action?

    I guess it's just a "burned in" culture thing.

    Of course, which I said in a separate topic, higher education is a societal expectation, not a societal need. "We" (in the most general term of business operators / owners / HR folk) expect the people we interview to have a college education. Even if a college education has no real world bearing on the position trying to be filled.

    The reason it is this way is because owners and managers want to feel that they aren't wasting time and money interviewing people who they'd have to entirely train from the ground up.

    Which in actuality would be better for the business. Sure training is expensive, but hiring someone with a ton of student debt with the debt:entitlement ratio (mentioned in another topic) would make that person not willing to accept less pay, while they learn the real skills.

    But a person who doesn't have such a high debt:entitlement ratio would likely accept the position, happily learn the real world skills and avoid having to be a farm hand (or some other manual labor job).

    Which saves the company money in payroll expenses, while gaining a specifically trained and tailored employee.



  • @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    As someone who is considering going back to college just to complete my AA (to start), I've also been down the road on this... Some folks are telling me that since it has been so long since I did my core classes (english, psych, science, etc) that I may have to take them again.

    My response to that is: Nope. I took them already, and I simply refuse to take them again, even if that means I won't get the degree.

    Why bother with the non-degree, then? Since college is anti-education, what's the upside without the sheepskin?

    Well, in my case, it'd equate to a 5k to 10k/year pay raise at my current job. If I take it using the financial aid available to staff, then I'm only out my time and books... It makes it insanely cheap for me to get the last few classes I need... So I see it as a win. That's the only reason I'd go back for it is a pay raise.

    How does it become a raise? Just taking classes gives you a raise? Any classes? ANy number of them?

    In order to get the raise, I have to complete an AA or BS. I am far closer to getting an AA than a BS. So thst will be my goal for now.



  • @thwr said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @thwr said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    I know that you really hate the current educational system and I don't know how exactly getting a job in the US works, but be assured, you will have a very hard time to get a job here without some "sheets of paper", as we like to call it. Its basically like "No college degree? Thanks for your CV, but no.".

    That's very, very insulting to the German culture. So they put more value on your ability to buy a degree than your ability to demonstrate skills, aptitude or drive?

    Kind of, yes

    At least the degrees are free, there. It's a form of racial and socio-economic discrimination. It's used as a barrier in the US to keep the richer groups in power.



  • @thwr said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @thwr said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    We all know that this is BS at its best, but that's how HR works - at least here.

    SO everyone knows that HR is intentionally sabotaging the companies, but the companies are scared of HR or too stupid to do something about it and improve their chances of hiring well compared to their competition?

    How does "everyone know" yet "anyone allow" it to keep happening? If everyone knows that they can get better people without letting HR sabotage them, why don't they fire... no wait, SUE the HR people? If they are actively trying to hurt the companies and it's common knowledge, why is no one taking action?

    I guess it's just a "burned in" culture thing.

    That implies a lack of "outside the box" thinking across the board. It only takes a few people looking to "one up" the system to be totally disruptive - steal the best people before they are even on the radar of anyone else and leap frog the average company.



  • @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    As someone who is considering going back to college just to complete my AA (to start), I've also been down the road on this... Some folks are telling me that since it has been so long since I did my core classes (english, psych, science, etc) that I may have to take them again.

    My response to that is: Nope. I took them already, and I simply refuse to take them again, even if that means I won't get the degree.

    Why bother with the non-degree, then? Since college is anti-education, what's the upside without the sheepskin?

    Well, in my case, it'd equate to a 5k to 10k/year pay raise at my current job. If I take it using the financial aid available to staff, then I'm only out my time and books... It makes it insanely cheap for me to get the last few classes I need... So I see it as a win. That's the only reason I'd go back for it is a pay raise.

    How does it become a raise? Just taking classes gives you a raise? Any classes? ANy number of them?

    In order to get the raise, I have to complete an AA or BS. I am far closer to getting an AA than a BS. So thst will be my goal for now.

    Wait, but you said that you would refuse to get the degree, only take classes. So this logic directly goes against what you had stated would be how you work go about the degree. Hence why I asked in the first place, because it was a response to stating that you'd not get the sheepskin at the end because you'd flat out refuse to take the classes.



  • @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    As someone who is considering going back to college just to complete my AA (to start), I've also been down the road on this... Some folks are telling me that since it has been so long since I did my core classes (english, psych, science, etc) that I may have to take them again.

    My response to that is: Nope. I took them already, and I simply refuse to take them again, even if that means I won't get the degree.

    Why bother with the non-degree, then? Since college is anti-education, what's the upside without the sheepskin?

    Well, in my case, it'd equate to a 5k to 10k/year pay raise at my current job. If I take it using the financial aid available to staff, then I'm only out my time and books... It makes it insanely cheap for me to get the last few classes I need... So I see it as a win. That's the only reason I'd go back for it is a pay raise.

    How does it become a raise? Just taking classes gives you a raise? Any classes? ANy number of them?

    Sadly I've seen companies like this. No degree today, but you get one tomorrow and you get a raise for no other reason than you now have a degree... really lame!



  • @Dashrender said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    As someone who is considering going back to college just to complete my AA (to start), I've also been down the road on this... Some folks are telling me that since it has been so long since I did my core classes (english, psych, science, etc) that I may have to take them again.

    My response to that is: Nope. I took them already, and I simply refuse to take them again, even if that means I won't get the degree.

    Why bother with the non-degree, then? Since college is anti-education, what's the upside without the sheepskin?

    Well, in my case, it'd equate to a 5k to 10k/year pay raise at my current job. If I take it using the financial aid available to staff, then I'm only out my time and books... It makes it insanely cheap for me to get the last few classes I need... So I see it as a win. That's the only reason I'd go back for it is a pay raise.

    How does it become a raise? Just taking classes gives you a raise? Any classes? ANy number of them?

    Sadly I've seen companies like this. No degree today, but you get one tomorrow and you get a raise for no other reason than you now have a degree... really lame!

    No, THAT I would understand. He had said that he was going to refuse to take the classes necessary to get the degree granted, so was just going to take the pointless tech classes. That's why I was confused. While I don't agree with raises for degrees, I understand that it happens. That it was not going on here is what confused me.



  • @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @Dashrender said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    As someone who is considering going back to college just to complete my AA (to start), I've also been down the road on this... Some folks are telling me that since it has been so long since I did my core classes (english, psych, science, etc) that I may have to take them again.

    My response to that is: Nope. I took them already, and I simply refuse to take them again, even if that means I won't get the degree.

    Why bother with the non-degree, then? Since college is anti-education, what's the upside without the sheepskin?

    Well, in my case, it'd equate to a 5k to 10k/year pay raise at my current job. If I take it using the financial aid available to staff, then I'm only out my time and books... It makes it insanely cheap for me to get the last few classes I need... So I see it as a win. That's the only reason I'd go back for it is a pay raise.

    How does it become a raise? Just taking classes gives you a raise? Any classes? ANy number of them?

    Sadly I've seen companies like this. No degree today, but you get one tomorrow and you get a raise for no other reason than you now have a degree... really lame!

    No, THAT I would understand. He had said that he was going to refuse to take the classes necessary to get the degree granted, so was just going to take the pointless tech classes. That's why I was confused. While I don't agree with raises for degrees, I understand that it happens. That it was not going on here is what confused me.

    Oh, I figured he was going to drop out again if the school was going to try to force him to retake the core classes he took before. Yeah, if the classes are meanlingless, and you won't get the degree, so you won't get the raise, why waste the time?



  • @Dashrender said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @Dashrender said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    As someone who is considering going back to college just to complete my AA (to start), I've also been down the road on this... Some folks are telling me that since it has been so long since I did my core classes (english, psych, science, etc) that I may have to take them again.

    My response to that is: Nope. I took them already, and I simply refuse to take them again, even if that means I won't get the degree.

    Why bother with the non-degree, then? Since college is anti-education, what's the upside without the sheepskin?

    Well, in my case, it'd equate to a 5k to 10k/year pay raise at my current job. If I take it using the financial aid available to staff, then I'm only out my time and books... It makes it insanely cheap for me to get the last few classes I need... So I see it as a win. That's the only reason I'd go back for it is a pay raise.

    How does it become a raise? Just taking classes gives you a raise? Any classes? ANy number of them?

    Sadly I've seen companies like this. No degree today, but you get one tomorrow and you get a raise for no other reason than you now have a degree... really lame!

    No, THAT I would understand. He had said that he was going to refuse to take the classes necessary to get the degree granted, so was just going to take the pointless tech classes. That's why I was confused. While I don't agree with raises for degrees, I understand that it happens. That it was not going on here is what confused me.

    Oh, I figured he was going to drop out again if the school was going to try to force him to retake the core classes he took before. Yeah, if the classes are meanlingless, and you won't get the degree, so you won't get the raise, why waste the time?

    He said that he was going to take the classes regardless, and just not get the degree. At least that was my understanding.



  • @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @Dashrender said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @Dashrender said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    As someone who is considering going back to college just to complete my AA (to start), I've also been down the road on this... Some folks are telling me that since it has been so long since I did my core classes (english, psych, science, etc) that I may have to take them again.

    My response to that is: Nope. I took them already, and I simply refuse to take them again, even if that means I won't get the degree.

    Why bother with the non-degree, then? Since college is anti-education, what's the upside without the sheepskin?

    Well, in my case, it'd equate to a 5k to 10k/year pay raise at my current job. If I take it using the financial aid available to staff, then I'm only out my time and books... It makes it insanely cheap for me to get the last few classes I need... So I see it as a win. That's the only reason I'd go back for it is a pay raise.

    How does it become a raise? Just taking classes gives you a raise? Any classes? ANy number of them?

    Sadly I've seen companies like this. No degree today, but you get one tomorrow and you get a raise for no other reason than you now have a degree... really lame!

    No, THAT I would understand. He had said that he was going to refuse to take the classes necessary to get the degree granted, so was just going to take the pointless tech classes. That's why I was confused. While I don't agree with raises for degrees, I understand that it happens. That it was not going on here is what confused me.

    Oh, I figured he was going to drop out again if the school was going to try to force him to retake the core classes he took before. Yeah, if the classes are meanlingless, and you won't get the degree, so you won't get the raise, why waste the time?

    He said that he was going to take the classes regardless, and just not get the degree. At least that was my understanding.

    What would be the point in that? you aren't getting the raise without the piece of paper.. seems like a waste.



  • @Breffni-Potter Going way back to the original topic. Took you long enough! I was thinking this while going through physical torture (public speaking) to get my 2 year degree.

    I'm still bad at speaking in public. Get super nervous, heart rate goes crazy, can't think without my notes, but even with all that, it's still a lot better than what I was like before.



  • @travisdh1 said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @Breffni-Potter Going way back to the original topic. Took you long enough! I was thinking this while going through physical torture (public speaking) to get my 2 year degree.

    I'm still bad at speaking in public. Get super nervous, heart rate goes crazy, can't think without my notes, but even with all that, it's still a lot better than what I was like before.

    How would you rank your performance at MangoCon?

    I thought you seemed calm.



  • Public speaking is difficult, I have trouble from time to time with it as well (and still try to avoid it, just something I don't practice enough / or have the opportunity)

    What I was taught was public speak to 2 or 3 people in the room, focus on them. Use the presidential approach.

    Left center and right sides of the room (and to an individual) always picking the same person.



  • @Dashrender said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @Dashrender said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @Dashrender said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @scottalanmiller said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @dafyre said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    As someone who is considering going back to college just to complete my AA (to start), I've also been down the road on this... Some folks are telling me that since it has been so long since I did my core classes (english, psych, science, etc) that I may have to take them again.

    My response to that is: Nope. I took them already, and I simply refuse to take them again, even if that means I won't get the degree.

    Why bother with the non-degree, then? Since college is anti-education, what's the upside without the sheepskin?

    Well, in my case, it'd equate to a 5k to 10k/year pay raise at my current job. If I take it using the financial aid available to staff, then I'm only out my time and books... It makes it insanely cheap for me to get the last few classes I need... So I see it as a win. That's the only reason I'd go back for it is a pay raise.

    How does it become a raise? Just taking classes gives you a raise? Any classes? ANy number of them?

    Sadly I've seen companies like this. No degree today, but you get one tomorrow and you get a raise for no other reason than you now have a degree... really lame!

    No, THAT I would understand. He had said that he was going to refuse to take the classes necessary to get the degree granted, so was just going to take the pointless tech classes. That's why I was confused. While I don't agree with raises for degrees, I understand that it happens. That it was not going on here is what confused me.

    Oh, I figured he was going to drop out again if the school was going to try to force him to retake the core classes he took before. Yeah, if the classes are meanlingless, and you won't get the degree, so you won't get the raise, why waste the time?

    He said that he was going to take the classes regardless, and just not get the degree. At least that was my understanding.

    What would be the point in that? you aren't getting the raise without the piece of paper.. seems like a waste.

    And that was my whole point 🙂



  • @BRRABill said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @travisdh1 said in I've lost all hope in Education.:

    @Breffni-Potter Going way back to the original topic. Took you long enough! I was thinking this while going through physical torture (public speaking) to get my 2 year degree.

    I'm still bad at speaking in public. Get super nervous, heart rate goes crazy, can't think without my notes, but even with all that, it's still a lot better than what I was like before.

    How would you rank your performance at MangoCon?

    I thought you seemed calm.

    Good acting!



  • I think college is a great opportunity to meet new people and get great experience nevertheless it's expensive


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