Offline files nightmare
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@BBigford said in Offline files nightmare:
@wrx7m said in Offline files nightmare:
I have seen complaints with semi-related OneDrive (and similar products), so I can't hold out any hope that there is an end-all solution.
Something similar, where it's held local but doesn't sync? Even though sync says everything is fine, or were there errors that you're aware of?
Honestly, I can't remember if errors were thrown or not. I have definitely seen errors but I can't remember if there were some that didn't have an error and had issues.
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@Reid-Cooper I like a "map analogy" for that. Tell them that you need to get to point Y on a map. You are currently at X. The sunk cost fallacy would be taking into consideration "where you started from" to get to point Y rather than "where you are currently." When driving around, you never consider where you came from, that is obviously nuts. But people do this with finances all the time.
Imagine that you were driving from New York to California and got lost in Nebraska. Your GPS finds you the route from where you are in Nebraska to California. It doesn't only tell you the route from NY or send you back to NY to start over.
This is why it is a good thing that engineers make GPS system and not business people
Business people would keep asking where you had left from rather than where you are and would keep giving you directions from a place that you are not in. -
@dafyre said in Offline files nightmare:
@wrx7m said in Offline files nightmare:
@BBigford Yes. Where you have to blow away their local copy and have it download the entirety of their data. There are other issues, but this is one that I have seen the most of. If you want to see what you are up against, Google - OneDrive Sync issues. It may or may not be as prevalent an issue as it once was.
Nextcloud and ownCloud never seemed to have this issue to me.
I've never seen it.
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@dafyre Good to know. I was considering owncloud then it got forked(?) to nextcloud and it is still too new for me to use in production.
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@scottalanmiller said in Offline files nightmare:
@Reid-Cooper I like a "map analogy" for that. Tell them that you need to get to point Y on a map. You are currently at X. The sunk cost fallacy would be taking into consideration "where you started from" to get to point Y rather than "where you are currently." When driving around, you never consider where you came from, that is obviously nuts. But people do this with finances all the time.
Imagine that you were driving from New York to California and got lost in Nebraska. Your GPS finds you the route from where you are in Nebraska to California. It doesn't only tell you the route from NY or send you back to NY to start over.
This is why it is a good thing that engineers make GPS system and not business people
Business people would keep asking where you had left from rather than where you are and would keep giving you directions from a place that you are not in.Haha thanks for that. I got a good laugh. Great way to put it too, definitely going to use that at some point.
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@wrx7m said in Offline files nightmare:
@dafyre Good to know. I was considering owncloud then it got forked(?) to nextcloud and it is still too new for me to use in production.
Forked doesn't mean new. NextCloud is very mature. It's like a decade old, the most mature of its class of software, open source (which adds to maturity) and is on the tenth production major release. If it's not mature, nothing is.
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@wrx7m said in Offline files nightmare:
@dafyre Good to know. I was considering owncloud then it got forked(?) to nextcloud and it is still too new for me to use in production.
I honestly haven't tried NextCloud or ownCloud yet. How is that stored, is it something you can store on-premises if needed (like downloading a server-client copy), or is it only out on someone else's servers, or what? Going to do a little research, just thought I'd ask in the mean time how it realistically looks.
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This is one of the beauties of open source software, new projects don't always mean new code. Many projects come from mature code. Like DragonFly from FreeBSD. DragonFly wasn't new, even though it forked from FreeBSD. Just two different directions from the same starting point.
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@BBigford said in Offline files nightmare:
@wrx7m said in Offline files nightmare:
@dafyre Good to know. I was considering owncloud then it got forked(?) to nextcloud and it is still too new for me to use in production.
I honestly haven't tried NextCloud or ownCloud yet. How is that stored, is it something you can store on-premises if needed (like downloading a server-client copy), or is it only out on someone else's servers, or what? Going to do a little research, just thought I'd ask in the mean time how it realistically looks.
It's just a file server. You install it wherever you want. Same as Samba, Windows File Server, etc.
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@scottalanmiller I know it doesn't mean new, but there were some decent sized changes from what I could tell. I am optimistic, for sure.
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@wrx7m said in Offline files nightmare:
@scottalanmiller I know it doesn't mean new, but there were some decent sized changes from what I could tell. I am optimistic, for sure.
No, the original release had almost no changes at all, it was nothing but the normal incremental release of the current code in process. NextCloud was a direct fork, there is no shift or anything of the sort. It's literally just the continuation of ownCloud, nothing else at all. If ownCloud would have been viable today, NextCloud is viable. Same product, no change in direction except to open the code even more and have better community involvement... it's even the same team of people.
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@scottalanmiller said in Offline files nightmare:
@BBigford said in Offline files nightmare:
@wrx7m said in Offline files nightmare:
@dafyre Good to know. I was considering owncloud then it got forked(?) to nextcloud and it is still too new for me to use in production.
I honestly haven't tried NextCloud or ownCloud yet. How is that stored, is it something you can store on-premises if needed (like downloading a server-client copy), or is it only out on someone else's servers, or what? Going to do a little research, just thought I'd ask in the mean time how it realistically looks.
It's just a file server. You install it wherever you want. Same as Samba, Windows File Server, etc.
Ah, ok. So then you're still dealing with offline files? Or do people setup their instance of NextCloud/ownCloud on a web server so that users can access stuff wherever they are, without having to VPN into the network or worry about offline files?
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@BBigford said in Offline files nightmare:
@wrx7m said in Offline files nightmare:
@dafyre Good to know. I was considering owncloud then it got forked(?) to nextcloud and it is still too new for me to use in production.
I honestly haven't tried NextCloud or ownCloud yet. How is that stored, is it something you can store on-premises if needed (like downloading a server-client copy), or is it only out on someone else's servers, or what? Going to do a little research, just thought I'd ask in the mean time how it realistically looks.
Install it on your internal server... Make sure VM is configured with enough storage on the Nextcloud VM to hold everybody's files... and go.
Note: This would not something be good for syncing Outlook OSTs or files that are open all the time... But for MyDocs/Pictures/Videos, etc... Is great.
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@BBigford said in Offline files nightmare:
@scottalanmiller said in Offline files nightmare:
@BBigford said in Offline files nightmare:
@wrx7m said in Offline files nightmare:
@dafyre Good to know. I was considering owncloud then it got forked(?) to nextcloud and it is still too new for me to use in production.
I honestly haven't tried NextCloud or ownCloud yet. How is that stored, is it something you can store on-premises if needed (like downloading a server-client copy), or is it only out on someone else's servers, or what? Going to do a little research, just thought I'd ask in the mean time how it realistically looks.
It's just a file server. You install it wherever you want. Same as Samba, Windows File Server, etc.
Ah, ok. So then you're still dealing with offline files? Or do people setup their instance of NextCloud/ownCloud on a web server so that users can access stuff wherever they are, without having to VPN into the network or worry about offline files?
It's just software that you install. It's a normal file server except you use the ownCloud/NextCloud protocols instead of SMB. It's got built in security, you dont use VPNs in the modern world. That's a kludge to handle LAN-centric protocols and setups like SMB and the Windows File Services.
So you just install NextCloud like any normal web server (it runs on APache, so IS a normal web server exactly) and expose it to the outside over HTTPS like any other secure site.
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@dafyre said in Offline files nightmare:
@BBigford said in Offline files nightmare:
@wrx7m said in Offline files nightmare:
@dafyre Good to know. I was considering owncloud then it got forked(?) to nextcloud and it is still too new for me to use in production.
I honestly haven't tried NextCloud or ownCloud yet. How is that stored, is it something you can store on-premises if needed (like downloading a server-client copy), or is it only out on someone else's servers, or what? Going to do a little research, just thought I'd ask in the mean time how it realistically looks.
Install it on your internal server... Make sure VM is configured with enough storage on the Nextcloud VM to hold everybody's files... and go.
Note: This would not something be good for syncing Outlook OSTs or files that are open all the time... But for MyDocs/Pictures/Videos, etc... Is great.
Is having PSTs on a shared folder still not a good idea?
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@wrx7m said in Offline files nightmare:
Is having PSTs on a shared folder still not a good idea?
THere you go.
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@scottalanmiller said in Offline files nightmare:
@wrx7m said in Offline files nightmare:
Is having PSTs on a shared folder still not a good idea?
THere you go.
Thought so. I am still pursuing O365, where storage of email will be a lot less of an issue.
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@scottalanmiller said in Offline files nightmare:
@BBigford said in Offline files nightmare:
@scottalanmiller said in Offline files nightmare:
@BBigford said in Offline files nightmare:
@wrx7m said in Offline files nightmare:
@dafyre Good to know. I was considering owncloud then it got forked(?) to nextcloud and it is still too new for me to use in production.
I honestly haven't tried NextCloud or ownCloud yet. How is that stored, is it something you can store on-premises if needed (like downloading a server-client copy), or is it only out on someone else's servers, or what? Going to do a little research, just thought I'd ask in the mean time how it realistically looks.
It's just a file server. You install it wherever you want. Same as Samba, Windows File Server, etc.
Ah, ok. So then you're still dealing with offline files? Or do people setup their instance of NextCloud/ownCloud on a web server so that users can access stuff wherever they are, without having to VPN into the network or worry about offline files?
It's just software that you install. It's a normal file server except you use the ownCloud/NextCloud protocols instead of SMB. It's got built in security, you dont use VPNs in the modern world. That's a kludge to handle LAN-centric protocols and setups like SMB and the Windows File Services.
So you just install NextCloud like any normal web server (it runs on APache, so IS a normal web server exactly) and expose it to the outside over HTTPS like any other secure site.
Geez... why would anyone use Windows file services anymore then.
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@BBigford said in Offline files nightmare:
@scottalanmiller said in Offline files nightmare:
@BBigford said in Offline files nightmare:
@scottalanmiller said in Offline files nightmare:
@BBigford said in Offline files nightmare:
@wrx7m said in Offline files nightmare:
@dafyre Good to know. I was considering owncloud then it got forked(?) to nextcloud and it is still too new for me to use in production.
I honestly haven't tried NextCloud or ownCloud yet. How is that stored, is it something you can store on-premises if needed (like downloading a server-client copy), or is it only out on someone else's servers, or what? Going to do a little research, just thought I'd ask in the mean time how it realistically looks.
It's just a file server. You install it wherever you want. Same as Samba, Windows File Server, etc.
Ah, ok. So then you're still dealing with offline files? Or do people setup their instance of NextCloud/ownCloud on a web server so that users can access stuff wherever they are, without having to VPN into the network or worry about offline files?
It's just software that you install. It's a normal file server except you use the ownCloud/NextCloud protocols instead of SMB. It's got built in security, you dont use VPNs in the modern world. That's a kludge to handle LAN-centric protocols and setups like SMB and the Windows File Services.
So you just install NextCloud like any normal web server (it runs on APache, so IS a normal web server exactly) and expose it to the outside over HTTPS like any other secure site.
Geez... why would anyone use Windows file services anymore then.
THey shouldn't. I've been preaching against this conceptually for a year. It's LAN-thinking and a vestige of the 1990s. I gave the talk on this at MangoCon. HOpefully it will be posted soon (pinging @MarigabyFrias for an ETA On that.)
Things like NextCloud are the current and future (for now.) SMB is the past. Anything that relies on a LAN or VPN (VPN is just a LAN extension) is old style thinking. We can't always avoid it, but it's a dead mindset.
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@BBigford said in Offline files nightmare:
Geez... why would anyone use Windows file services anymore then.
Some companies left the LAN design with things like file shared behind last decade. Just waiting for others to catch up.
