Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!



  • This is a real game changer for them.

    Copied directly from the slides 🙂

    Automatically protect Exchange, Sharepoint and OneDrive with unlimited retention.

    Boomerang: Low Cost Disaster Recovery in AWS or Microsoft Azure for VMWare virtual Machines.



  • @Minion-Queen said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    This is a real game changer for them.

    Copied directly from the slides 🙂

    Automatically protect Exchange, Sharepoint and OneDrive with unlimited retention.

    Boomerang: Low Cost Disaster Recovery in AWS or Microsoft Azure for VMWare virtual Machines.

    Now this is interesting!

    This is what Bill was looking for.
    I can't find his tag to tag him.



  • @Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @Minion-Queen said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    This is a real game changer for them.

    Copied directly from the slides 🙂

    Automatically protect Exchange, Sharepoint and OneDrive with unlimited retention.

    Boomerang: Low Cost Disaster Recovery in AWS or Microsoft Azure for VMWare virtual Machines.

    Now this is interesting!

    This is what Bill was looking for.
    I can't find his tag to tag him.

    @BRRABill



  • Might look at this later this year, once we've signed our MPLS contract and got some space in a DC as i'm looking at Unitrends to backup a few servers to the DC, but will also be looking at our whole Backup and DR strategy in general too. 365/One Drive was one thought I had.

    But is it needed? as 365/one drive is cloud based so shouldn't need backing up???? An't that the point of cloud services?



  • @hobbit666 said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    Might look at this later this year, once we've signed our MPLS contract and got some space in a DC as i'm looking at Unitrends to backup a few servers to the DC, but will also be looking at our whole Backup and DR strategy in general too. 365/One Drive was one thought I had.

    But is it needed? as 365/one drive is cloud based so shouldn't need backing up???? An't that the point of cloud services?

    As has recently been discussed - If MS, for example, has an issue, they will restore whole systems back to a healthy state, including your data. But, if a malicious user logs into your O365 system and just starts deleting things, MS has no mechanism to restore things.
    Another example, you use OneDrive to sync your file to your local desktop. Your PC gets hit by cryptoware and encrypts all of the files in your OneDrive folder, which are then synced back to MS, MS again has no means of restoring them to a pre-encrypted state.



  • @Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    As has recently been discussed - If MS, for example, has an issue, they will restore whole systems back to a healthy state, including your data. But, if a malicious user logs into your O365 system and just starts deleting things, MS has no mechanism to restore things.
    Another example, you use OneDrive to sync your file to your local desktop. Your PC gets hit by cryptoware and encrypts all of the files in your OneDrive folder, which are then synced back to MS, MS again has no means of restoring them to a pre-encrypted state.

    Good point will make a note of those when I look at it closely 😃



  • More information on Office 365 backups: https://mangolassi.it/topic/11055/unitrends-now-has-office365-cloud-backups
    Microsoft Office 365
    Adoption is growing, but many businesses are not protected from data loss in the cloud
    Since it's launch in 2011, business both large and small have been steadily adopting Microsoft Office 365, with an estimated 50,000 small business added as Office 365 customers each month. Some of these business think they don't need backup since Office 365 runs in the Microsoft Azure cloud. But data loss can and does occur in the cloud. And even if the data is lost, only stuck in a Microsoft archive somewhere, restoring it can take days. Recovery doesn't have to be this hard. Unitrends offers automatic cloud backup for Office 365.
     
    Causes of Data Loss in the Cloud
     
    Office 365 and the Cloud do not prevent data loss due to human action. 75% of data loss is due to people deleting content accidentally or intentionally1, and that’s not the only threat. Another study2 found that 32% of the companies surveyed had experienced data loss from:
    User Error (64%)
    Hackers (13%)
    Closing an Account (10%)
    Malicious Deletion (10%)
    Third Party Software (7%)
     
    Users Can Permanently Delete Items
    Deleted items in Office 365 may be unrecoverable before anyone realizes the needed files are missing. For example, deleted email is permanently removed after 14 days default, 30 days maximum. Expanded Office 365 licenses and features can offer longer retention, but don’t provide a fast, easy way to restore content exactly as it was and where it was so your employees can get back on track quickly.
    How to Back Up Office 365
    Exchange, SharePoint, and OneDrive are the applications your business relies on every day. But without a smart backup plan, finding and restoring lost Office 365 data can take hours, days, or even longer. The Unitrends Connected Continuity Platform now offers Unitrends Cloud Backup for Office 365, so you can recover lost emails, folders, contacts, and more in seconds. No more panic when a user deletes a file, just quick recovery and back to business.
    Read the eBook to learn how to broaden your backup and recovery plan to include purpose‑built protection for Microsoft Office 365.



  • It really comes down to cost.

    As I have mentioned, there are already a number of players doing this, but they are pretty costly.

    Any idea of pricing yet?



  • @BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    It really comes down to cost.

    As I have mentioned, there are already a number of players doing this, but they are pretty costly.

    Any idea of pricing yet?

    Exactly, I've seen a few services that are more expensive than O365 is itself. I realize with things like forever backups or even incrementals, that you can 5-10 times as much storage in your backups as you do in live data, it makes me wonder - is MS running at a loss?

    Heck, why doesn't MS offer it's own backup solution? Granted no one might trust it since it would all be in the same family.



  • @Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    Exactly, I've seen a few services that are more expensive than O365 is itself. I realize with things like forever backups or even incrementals, that you can 5-10 times as much storage in your backups as you do in live data, it makes me wonder - is MS running at a loss?

    But MS doesn't charge for live data, you get 50GB whether you use it or not. Most do not. So that backup is many times larger means nothing. And they have scale to keep prices down. They give 50GB but the average usage is like 500MB. So backing that up is dirt cheap, especially when they already own the datacenter and only need to make profit on the service, not on each service. It's far cheaper for them to offer backups than it is for anyone else to do it.

    ANd if you think MS is running at a loss, that really shows how impossible it is to provide Exchange in house!



  • @Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    Heck, why doesn't MS offer it's own backup solution? Granted no one might trust it since it would all be in the same family.

    Ding ding ding. Your stuff is already backed up and legal hold is offered. If you are looking for more backup, it's because you don't trust the single vendor not because the service is lacking.



  • Veeam announced they were doing this soon, but I guess Unitrends beat them to the punch.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    Heck, why doesn't MS offer it's own backup solution? Granted no one might trust it since it would all be in the same family.

    Ding ding ding. Your stuff is already backed up and legal hold is offered. If you are looking for more backup, it's because you don't trust the single vendor not because the service is lacking.

    Does legal hold work with SharePoint as well?



  • @Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @scottalanmiller said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    Heck, why doesn't MS offer it's own backup solution? Granted no one might trust it since it would all be in the same family.

    Ding ding ding. Your stuff is already backed up and legal hold is offered. If you are looking for more backup, it's because you don't trust the single vendor not because the service is lacking.

    Does legal hold work with SharePoint as well?

    No, legal hold is an Exchange / email concept.



  • Yeah, @scottalanmiller and I had it out the other day about this whole topic. He was able to basically cover every scenario I came up with.

    EXCEPT: someone hacking your admin account. But, if they hack your admin account anywhere you are in for some serious trouble. His thought is that if they have access to that, they could just delete the backups.

    I'm not so certain about this, if the backup was separate.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @scottalanmiller said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    Heck, why doesn't MS offer it's own backup solution? Granted no one might trust it since it would all be in the same family.

    Ding ding ding. Your stuff is already backed up and legal hold is offered. If you are looking for more backup, it's because you don't trust the single vendor not because the service is lacking.

    Does legal hold work with SharePoint as well?

    No, legal hold is an Exchange / email concept.

    How much is Legal Hold? I thought it was like $2/u/m or more



  • @BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    Yeah, @scottalanmiller and I had it out the other day about this whole topic. He was able to basically cover every scenario I came up with.

    EXCEPT: someone hacking your admin account. But, if they hack your admin account anywhere you are in for some serious trouble. His thought is that if they have access to that, they could just delete the backups.

    I'm not so certain about this, if the backup was separate.

    If the backup is tape or unattached HDD, then those would be safe.

    If they are online, and they have access to your O365 account admin logon - chances are they have been watching you long enough to have all the admin level logons, and will just ruin anything you have online.



  • @scottalanmiller said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @scottalanmiller said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    Heck, why doesn't MS offer it's own backup solution? Granted no one might trust it since it would all be in the same family.

    Ding ding ding. Your stuff is already backed up and legal hold is offered. If you are looking for more backup, it's because you don't trust the single vendor not because the service is lacking.

    Does legal hold work with SharePoint as well?

    No, legal hold is an Exchange / email concept.

    How do you resolve this issue with regards to ODfB and SharePoint?



  • @Dashrender said

    How do you resolve this issue with regards to ODfB and SharePoint?

    Me? I consider it unresolved.

    Scott? Considers having just the files there with no backup other than the MS backup as safe as anything else.



  • @BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    Yeah, @scottalanmiller and I had it out the other day about this whole topic. He was able to basically cover every scenario I came up with.

    EXCEPT: someone hacking your admin account. But, if they hack your admin account anywhere you are in for some serious trouble. His thought is that if they have access to that, they could just delete the backups.

    I'm not so certain about this, if the backup was separate.

    Right. The backup has to be off-network to be safe.



  • @art_of_shred said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    Yeah, @scottalanmiller and I had it out the other day about this whole topic. He was able to basically cover every scenario I came up with.

    EXCEPT: someone hacking your admin account. But, if they hack your admin account anywhere you are in for some serious trouble. His thought is that if they have access to that, they could just delete the backups.

    I'm not so certain about this, if the backup was separate.

    Right. The backup has to be off-network to be safe.

    So do you agree with Bill's stated version of @scottalanmiller opinion that ODfB and Sharepoint don't require any extra backups? Be the online or off?

    Let's split this into two versions:
    a) locally synced to user's endpoint device
    b) never synced, online use, API use only



  • @Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @art_of_shred said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    Yeah, @scottalanmiller and I had it out the other day about this whole topic. He was able to basically cover every scenario I came up with.

    EXCEPT: someone hacking your admin account. But, if they hack your admin account anywhere you are in for some serious trouble. His thought is that if they have access to that, they could just delete the backups.

    I'm not so certain about this, if the backup was separate.

    Right. The backup has to be off-network to be safe.

    So do you agree with Bill's stated version of @scottalanmiller opinion that ODfB and Sharepoint don't require any extra backups? Be the online or off?

    Let's split this into two versions:
    a) locally synced to user's endpoint device
    b) never synced, online use, API use only

    Actually it doesn't even matter because if they are deleted in b) they are also deleted locally.

    You could say "well, you should backup your local copy elsewhere", but then that is a third party backup which @scottalanmiller is saying is not needed.



  • @BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @art_of_shred said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    Yeah, @scottalanmiller and I had it out the other day about this whole topic. He was able to basically cover every scenario I came up with.

    EXCEPT: someone hacking your admin account. But, if they hack your admin account anywhere you are in for some serious trouble. His thought is that if they have access to that, they could just delete the backups.

    I'm not so certain about this, if the backup was separate.

    Right. The backup has to be off-network to be safe.

    So do you agree with Bill's stated version of @scottalanmiller opinion that ODfB and Sharepoint don't require any extra backups? Be the online or off?

    Let's split this into two versions:
    a) locally synced to user's endpoint device
    b) never synced, online use, API use only

    Actually it doesn't even matter because if they are deleted in b) they are also deleted locally.

    You could say "well, you should backup your local copy elsewhere", but then that is a third party backup which @scottalanmiller is saying is not needed.

    No, these scenarios have more than just ^ see Bill's comment above.

    a suffers an indirect attack through something like crypto malware. B does't suffer these types of attack at all.

    So, if A is required, you need to have a solution that takes that into consideration. I don't know how you have a syncing client solution and don't have a full blown backup solution in place. It doesn't need to be full blown offline (i.e. disconnected USB/Tape, etc) but it needs to be completely external to the service being backed up.

    You can be worried about A and not worried about B. If you use something like 2FA for B type access, then it's pretty unlikely you have external sources to be concerned about. But employee error is still something you have to worry about.

    @scottalanmiller how do you mitigate the employee error for situation B?



  • @BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @art_of_shred said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    Yeah, @scottalanmiller and I had it out the other day about this whole topic. He was able to basically cover every scenario I came up with.

    EXCEPT: someone hacking your admin account. But, if they hack your admin account anywhere you are in for some serious trouble. His thought is that if they have access to that, they could just delete the backups.

    I'm not so certain about this, if the backup was separate.

    Right. The backup has to be off-network to be safe.

    So do you agree with Bill's stated version of @scottalanmiller opinion that ODfB and Sharepoint don't require any extra backups? Be the online or off?

    Let's split this into two versions:
    a) locally synced to user's endpoint device
    b) never synced, online use, API use only

    Actually it doesn't even matter because if they are deleted in b) they are also deleted locally.

    You could say "well, you should backup your local copy elsewhere", but then that is a third party backup which @scottalanmiller is saying is not needed.

    Sorry, I meant to say a) here

    In my response.

    If the cloud version is deleted, so is the local version.



  • @BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @art_of_shred said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    Yeah, @scottalanmiller and I had it out the other day about this whole topic. He was able to basically cover every scenario I came up with.

    EXCEPT: someone hacking your admin account. But, if they hack your admin account anywhere you are in for some serious trouble. His thought is that if they have access to that, they could just delete the backups.

    I'm not so certain about this, if the backup was separate.

    Right. The backup has to be off-network to be safe.

    So do you agree with Bill's stated version of @scottalanmiller opinion that ODfB and Sharepoint don't require any extra backups? Be the online or off?

    Let's split this into two versions:
    a) locally synced to user's endpoint device
    b) never synced, online use, API use only

    Actually it doesn't even matter because if they are deleted in b) they are also deleted locally.

    You could say "well, you should backup your local copy elsewhere", but then that is a third party backup which @scottalanmiller is saying is not needed.

    Sorry, I meant to say a) here

    In my response.

    If the cloud version is deleted, so is the local version.

    Absolutely - so I guess you're comment about that was that there should be a backup -uhhh.. yeah I agree with you, even though I guess others don't?



  • @Dashrender said

    Absolutely - so I guess you're comment about that was that there should be a backup -uhhh.. yeah I agree with you, even though I guess others don't?

    Well, again that has to be quantified. @scottalanmiller contends that ODfB and SharePoint are fully backed up by Microsoft, and there is no need for additional backups.

    I do not agree with that, and feel there should be a third party, separated backup.

    He has gone silent on this issue. Hopefully he'll chime in. This is kind of why I started that other thread. Yes, that thread was for personal use, but the concepts are the same.



  • @BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @Dashrender said

    Absolutely - so I guess you're comment about that was that there should be a backup -uhhh.. yeah I agree with you, even though I guess others don't?

    Well, again that has to be quantified. @scottalanmiller contends that ODfB and SharePoint are fully backed up by Microsoft, and there is no need for additional backups.

    I do not agree with that, and feel there should be a third party, separated backup.

    He has gone silent on this issue. Hopefully he'll chime in. This is kind of why I started that other thread. Yes, that thread was for personal use, but the concepts are the same.

    Well, the concepts aren't entirely the same - OneDrive vs OneDrive for Business - I do expect (maybe wrongly) that they would be different on the back end.

    OneDrive I wouldn't expect MS to backup. Sure I expect them to make best effort to have my data in more than one place to save from DC failure, server failure, etc. But a full on backup? nah - it's to cheap to expect that.

    But, OneDrive for Business/Sharepoint yes I do fully expect (again maybe wrongly) that MS should have backups and that I should be able to put in for a timely restore at the object level.
    But it sounds like ODfB doesn't offer that either.

    So, what is a company to do when an employee goes on a rampage and deletes a bunch of stuff? and let's say it's photos so we don't have any potential versioning backups to recover from.



  • @Dashrender said

    So, what is a company to do when an employee goes on a rampage and deletes a bunch of stuff? and let's say it's photos so we don't have any potential versioning backups to recover from.

    Or worse if your admin account gets compromised somehow.

    I realize it's a game of numbers. From my offline discussions with @scottalanmiller he said it was more likely for my backup tapes to get thrown in a fire than it was for my admin account to get hacked.



  • @BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:

    @Dashrender said

    So, what is a company to do when an employee goes on a rampage and deletes a bunch of stuff? and let's say it's photos so we don't have any potential versioning backups to recover from.

    Or worse if your admin account gets compromised somehow.

    I realize it's a game of numbers. From my offline discussions with @scottalanmiller he said it was more likely for my backup tapes to get thrown in a fire than it was for my admin account to get hacked.

    If you use 2FA I would agree with him.



  • @Dashrender said >

    If you use 2FA I would agree with him.

    OK, so let me argue his point here then. (I wonder if @scottalanmiller is just sitting back, waiting to see if he has convinced me!)

    If a secure admin password with 2FA is equally (f not more) secure than offsite backups, what are we afraid of?

    1. ODfB does not fall into play. ODfB is considered private user storage. Company files would need to be stored under SharePoint to be protected from total deletion.

    1a. I think there is a way to preserve deleted user files in ODfB, but it has to be turned on for each individual user. (Can nayone confirm?) (See: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/all/second-stage-recycle-in-one-drive-for-business/be1361fe-b87b-4457-9b32-12ca9ceae180?page=1)

    1. Any files that are deleted go into the site recycle bin, so while it might be a s-ton of work, they could be recovered.

    2. We trust that Microsoft is backing up the entire site, and will restore if needed. (The ENTIRE site though, not just one file.)