How much notice to give an employer?
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@Brains said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@scottalanmiller said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Dashrender said in How much notice to give an employer?:
In "at will" states, the firing without cause is pretty much meaningless,
I don't know who is telling you this stuff but it's totally false. First, nearly all states are effectively at will. Those that are not, are basically at will. The US is nearly an at will country. Firing is ALWAYS meaningful, VERY meaningful. When you fire someone, YOU are the deciding factor, not them. You can never claim that they quit, you can never claim that you fired them for cause, you can never not pay unemployment for them. It's a very, very big deal.
Unfortunately it doesnt always work out the way it should. I got fired from a job because I was starting college classes even though during my interview they agreed to work with me on my schedule. I had communicated with them regarding availability before scheduling my classes and they just told me to let them know when I got my schedule. I had been there 6-8 months and was one of their top performers. They changed their story 3 times (after i successfully proved them untruthful each time) during the unemployment process & appeal. They didn't even show up for the appeal and I still lost. I even had to file a Texas Wage Complaint because they tried to hold on to my check too long.
You lost a state level appeal without them even showing up? That's just corruption, doesn't change what the law is. That's insane, but that's how Texas works. There is serious corruption there. But that's what you are dealing with, likely someone on the board was paid off.
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@BBigford said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@MattSpeller said in How much notice to give an employer?:
Fairly typical in IT to get walked out immediately after giving notice so I'd say give them as much as you can. They have to pay you out for it.
Can I tell them I'm leaving in 2 years then? Do I get paid for all that time and still get walked out?
Yes, if they don't want to have to fire you. If they fire you, they have to pay unemployment. I've definitely given years out notice before, never got walked out, though.
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@MattSpeller said in How much notice to give an employer?:
Fairly typical in IT to get walked out immediately after giving notice so I'd say give them as much as you can. They have to pay you out for it.
I don't know many good shops that walk you out. That's very much a mom and pop shop thing to do.
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2 weeks? Blimey! That doesn't give the company much time to organise a replacement, does it? In the UK, at least a month is standard for salaried employees. In my last job I had to give 3 months notice.
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@scottalanmiller said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@DustinB3403 said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@scottalanmiller said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@DustinB3403 said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Dashrender said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@scottalanmiller said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@DustinB3403 said in How much notice to give an employer?:
I've heard of cases were a person was leaving their job, and forced to take PTO for the 2 weeks, consuming the PTO.
Tricked, not forced. You can't be forced to take PTO, not unless you signed an agreement ahead of time that agreed to that and even then it's questionable.
Maybe neither - send you home without pay. I hear about shops that close for 2 weeks over holidays. Those shops tell the employees, you have two options, use vacation time to get paid, or go without pay.
Are you saying this is illegal?
I've experienced this at one of my first jobs. It was the oddest thing (being a kid and not knowing what the heck was occurring) Ok the business is closing for these 2 weeks, take PTO (which still seems odd) or don't get paid.
"Hey we're closing the business for two weeks, your technically fired for this time, with a guaranteed restart date, but you can use PTO and still get a check..."
Um no pay me for unemployment, and continue my PTO when the business starts back up.
It's not fired, it's laid off. They are legally two different things. They might feel the same to you but they are totally different on a reference check, on a resume, in an interview and to the government. Being fired means that you were at fault, being laid off means the company was at fault.
Verbiage issues aside, do you agree that the employer can't tell you to use PTO to receive a check in the scenario? That they should be paying you through Unemployment insurance.
Can you get paid unemployment for only two weeks out of work? I'm not sure that you can. The employer is perfectly allowed to say what they said assuming that they didn't lie. Offering you PTO during a furlough is allowed.
You can in Ohio, not sure, that may vary by state. You don't get the first week, but the second week you would get paid for, just like the normal system. You do have to make at least the motions of apply for at least one job a week if my second hand information is correct.
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@Brains said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@IRJ said in How much notice to give an employer?:
2 weeks is what you give every time. No more, no less.
Every new employer will appreciate this and understand the two weeks notice.
As far as the employer you are leaving may beg for 3 weeks or a month. In my opinion you have no right to abide by this. By giving your two weeks you are already showing them a grace period. Employers have no problem laying people off without any grace period so never feel obligated to give any more time. Many times employers will walk IT out the door the same day anyway.
My employer requires 1 month of notice otherwise you are not paid out your Earned Time (Vacation days)
We don't get paid for earned time regardless when you leave. You use it or loose it.
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@Jason said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Brains said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@IRJ said in How much notice to give an employer?:
2 weeks is what you give every time. No more, no less.
Every new employer will appreciate this and understand the two weeks notice.
As far as the employer you are leaving may beg for 3 weeks or a month. In my opinion you have no right to abide by this. By giving your two weeks you are already showing them a grace period. Employers have no problem laying people off without any grace period so never feel obligated to give any more time. Many times employers will walk IT out the door the same day anyway.
My employer requires 1 month of notice otherwise you are not paid out your Earned Time (Vacation days)
We don't get paid for earned time regardless when you leave. You use it or loose it.
If you're in the US, that is highly illegal. Nothing different that stealing your wallet.
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@scottalanmiller said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@MattSpeller said in How much notice to give an employer?:
Fairly typical in IT to get walked out immediately after giving notice so I'd say give them as much as you can. They have to pay you out for it.
I don't know many good shops that walk you out. That's very much a mom and pop shop thing to do.
I know they do that in the defense industry.
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@travisdh1 said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Jason said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Brains said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@IRJ said in How much notice to give an employer?:
2 weeks is what you give every time. No more, no less.
Every new employer will appreciate this and understand the two weeks notice.
As far as the employer you are leaving may beg for 3 weeks or a month. In my opinion you have no right to abide by this. By giving your two weeks you are already showing them a grace period. Employers have no problem laying people off without any grace period so never feel obligated to give any more time. Many times employers will walk IT out the door the same day anyway.
My employer requires 1 month of notice otherwise you are not paid out your Earned Time (Vacation days)
We don't get paid for earned time regardless when you leave. You use it or loose it.
If you're in the US, that is highly illegal. Nothing different that stealing your wallet.
It's actually not. They only pay for earned time that is over 120hrs.
Read more here on point 3: https://www.workplacefairness.org/final-pay#3
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@Carnival-Boy said in How much notice to give an employer?:
2 weeks? Blimey! That doesn't give the company much time to organise a replacement, does it? In the UK, at least a month is standard for salaried employees. In my last job I had to give 3 months notice.
Had to, as in it is the law? Or did you have an employment contract stating you had to give 3 months notice?
What if you just walked in and quit, could they somehow force you to work 3 months?
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@Jason said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@travisdh1 said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Jason said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Brains said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@IRJ said in How much notice to give an employer?:
2 weeks is what you give every time. No more, no less.
Every new employer will appreciate this and understand the two weeks notice.
As far as the employer you are leaving may beg for 3 weeks or a month. In my opinion you have no right to abide by this. By giving your two weeks you are already showing them a grace period. Employers have no problem laying people off without any grace period so never feel obligated to give any more time. Many times employers will walk IT out the door the same day anyway.
My employer requires 1 month of notice otherwise you are not paid out your Earned Time (Vacation days)
We don't get paid for earned time regardless when you leave. You use it or loose it.
If you're in the US, that is highly illegal. Nothing different that stealing your wallet.
It's actually not. They only pay for earned time that is over 120hrs.
Read more here on point 3: https://www.workplacefairness.org/final-pay#3
I didn't see anything in there about 120 hours, only a listing of states where paying accrued vacation is state law. I'm guessing you're not in one of those states?
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@Dashrender said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Jason said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@travisdh1 said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Jason said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Brains said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@IRJ said in How much notice to give an employer?:
2 weeks is what you give every time. No more, no less.
Every new employer will appreciate this and understand the two weeks notice.
As far as the employer you are leaving may beg for 3 weeks or a month. In my opinion you have no right to abide by this. By giving your two weeks you are already showing them a grace period. Employers have no problem laying people off without any grace period so never feel obligated to give any more time. Many times employers will walk IT out the door the same day anyway.
My employer requires 1 month of notice otherwise you are not paid out your Earned Time (Vacation days)
We don't get paid for earned time regardless when you leave. You use it or loose it.
If you're in the US, that is highly illegal. Nothing different that stealing your wallet.
It's actually not. They only pay for earned time that is over 120hrs.
Read more here on point 3: https://www.workplacefairness.org/final-pay#3
I didn't see anything in there about 120 hours, only a listing of states where paying accrued vacation is state law. I'm guessing you're not in one of those states?
Yes, I'm not. Scott was saying it's federal law which it's not.
120hrs isn't law just our company policy.
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@Dashrender said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Carnival-Boy said in How much notice to give an employer?:
2 weeks? Blimey! That doesn't give the company much time to organise a replacement, does it? In the UK, at least a month is standard for salaried employees. In my last job I had to give 3 months notice.
Had to, as in it is the law? Or did you have an employment contract stating you had to give 3 months notice?
What if you just walked in and quit, could they somehow force you to work 3 months?
It was in my contract. If I'd have just walked they could have sued me, though in reality this rarely happens as it's not worth the time and effort for the employer (unless I went to a competitor). More likely I'd just get a bad reference.
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@Carnival-Boy said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Dashrender said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Carnival-Boy said in How much notice to give an employer?:
2 weeks? Blimey! That doesn't give the company much time to organise a replacement, does it? In the UK, at least a month is standard for salaried employees. In my last job I had to give 3 months notice.
Had to, as in it is the law? Or did you have an employment contract stating you had to give 3 months notice?
What if you just walked in and quit, could they somehow force you to work 3 months?
It was in my contract. If I'd have just walked they could have sued me, though in reality this rarely happens as it's not worth the time and effort for the employer (unless I went to a competitor). More likely I'd just get a bad reference.
I've had contracts like this, and they can be enforced, but according to my attorney in the US (not because I was looking to breach a contract, but because we've had to cover a lot of contract employment law in general) it's only viable if the employee is paid a significant amount above market value in order to justify the lack of free will employment - basically enough money that a court will say that they are so rich that employment protections aren't applicable. So like if you are normally $150K/year and in order to sign this contract you were given an additional $50K just to force you to give that warning does it actually apply and anyone earning under, say $90K, would never be applicable.
UK, no idea.
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@Carnival-Boy said in How much notice to give an employer?:
2 weeks? Blimey! That doesn't give the company much time to organise a replacement, does it? In the UK, at least a month is standard for salaried employees. In my last job I had to give 3 months notice.
Companies are required to have necessary plans in place. You can hire low end positions in a day, if you need to. High end positions, it's the company's own fault if they don't have a contingency plan. If you can't live without one key employee while you hire a replacement, how did you handle vacation time, weekends, holidays, work overages, sick time, maternity/paternity leave, family leave, etc? If you can't handle losing someone with two weeks notice, it implies you were mistreating that employee anyway.
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@Jason said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Brains said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@IRJ said in How much notice to give an employer?:
2 weeks is what you give every time. No more, no less.
Every new employer will appreciate this and understand the two weeks notice.
As far as the employer you are leaving may beg for 3 weeks or a month. In my opinion you have no right to abide by this. By giving your two weeks you are already showing them a grace period. Employers have no problem laying people off without any grace period so never feel obligated to give any more time. Many times employers will walk IT out the door the same day anyway.
My employer requires 1 month of notice otherwise you are not paid out your Earned Time (Vacation days)
We don't get paid for earned time regardless when you leave. You use it or loose it.
The trick there, because that is legal, is that you are protected and have the right to take that time. For example, if the company owes you 30 days of vacation, you just give 30 days notice and tell them that you are taking your time off right then. It's illegal to refuse accrued vacation time and illegal not to pay it and illegal to fire you to keep you from using it. But they CAN not pay it out if you quick and forget to take it.
THen you either get a vacation or can work the other job while still pulling the paycheck from the old one. No matter what, though, that money is yours if you know what you are doing.
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@IRJ said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@scottalanmiller said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@MattSpeller said in How much notice to give an employer?:
Fairly typical in IT to get walked out immediately after giving notice so I'd say give them as much as you can. They have to pay you out for it.
I don't know many good shops that walk you out. That's very much a mom and pop shop thing to do.
I know they do that in the defense industry.
Right, which is the opposite of the ones in my point
And are you sure that they walk you out as in fired, or just send you home. Defense doesn't normally have those firing problems, it's like finance, they just pay you to stay home two weeks and can ask you questions and stuff during that time.
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@Jason said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@travisdh1 said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Jason said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Brains said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@IRJ said in How much notice to give an employer?:
2 weeks is what you give every time. No more, no less.
Every new employer will appreciate this and understand the two weeks notice.
As far as the employer you are leaving may beg for 3 weeks or a month. In my opinion you have no right to abide by this. By giving your two weeks you are already showing them a grace period. Employers have no problem laying people off without any grace period so never feel obligated to give any more time. Many times employers will walk IT out the door the same day anyway.
My employer requires 1 month of notice otherwise you are not paid out your Earned Time (Vacation days)
We don't get paid for earned time regardless when you leave. You use it or loose it.
If you're in the US, that is highly illegal. Nothing different that stealing your wallet.
It's actually not. They only pay for earned time that is over 120hrs.
Read more here on point 3: https://www.workplacefairness.org/final-pay#3
SIck time they don't have to pay, vacation they do. But only if you handle it properly. It's federal because it is earned income and the IRS is owed their money regardless of if the company tries to screw the employee or not.
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@Dashrender said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Jason said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@travisdh1 said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Jason said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Brains said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@IRJ said in How much notice to give an employer?:
2 weeks is what you give every time. No more, no less.
Every new employer will appreciate this and understand the two weeks notice.
As far as the employer you are leaving may beg for 3 weeks or a month. In my opinion you have no right to abide by this. By giving your two weeks you are already showing them a grace period. Employers have no problem laying people off without any grace period so never feel obligated to give any more time. Many times employers will walk IT out the door the same day anyway.
My employer requires 1 month of notice otherwise you are not paid out your Earned Time (Vacation days)
We don't get paid for earned time regardless when you leave. You use it or loose it.
If you're in the US, that is highly illegal. Nothing different that stealing your wallet.
It's actually not. They only pay for earned time that is over 120hrs.
Read more here on point 3: https://www.workplacefairness.org/final-pay#3
I didn't see anything in there about 120 hours, only a listing of states where paying accrued vacation is state law. I'm guessing you're not in one of those states?
No, that's a list of paid PERSONAL time, not vacation. Different things.
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@scottalanmiller said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Jason said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@Brains said in How much notice to give an employer?:
@IRJ said in How much notice to give an employer?:
2 weeks is what you give every time. No more, no less.
Every new employer will appreciate this and understand the two weeks notice.
As far as the employer you are leaving may beg for 3 weeks or a month. In my opinion you have no right to abide by this. By giving your two weeks you are already showing them a grace period. Employers have no problem laying people off without any grace period so never feel obligated to give any more time. Many times employers will walk IT out the door the same day anyway.
My employer requires 1 month of notice otherwise you are not paid out your Earned Time (Vacation days)
We don't get paid for earned time regardless when you leave. You use it or loose it.
The trick there, because that is legal, is that you are protected and have the right to take that time. For example, if the company owes you 30 days of vacation, you just give 30 days notice and tell them that you are taking your time off right then. It's illegal to refuse accrued vacation time and illegal not to pay it and illegal to fire you to keep you from using it. But they CAN not pay it out if you quick and forget to take it.
THen you either get a vacation or can work the other job while still pulling the paycheck from the old one. No matter what, though, that money is yours if you know what you are doing.
This is an interesting situation - most companies that I know of don't let you just call the boss one day and say, oh starting today/tomorrow, whatever, I'm taking vacation.
My question is, what demands/controls, etc do employers have over when you can use your accrued vacation?
