Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10
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@Carnival-Boy said in Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:
I know. And for some businesses that wasn't deemed cost effective or appropriate. As we've already discussed. You seem to think anyone who made that business decision is an idiot, don't you?
If the business got news of "Hey this new program is coming out, and it works on Windows 10" and refused to upgrade for any reason, I'd call them idiots, yes.
And it's not a knock on you, as CAD designers often use higher end gear, and are effectively mandated by clients to have the most current software. This is clearly a lack of business initiative to care, to hope that they could skimp by.
Now if that business initiative is from the IT department, shame on you. If it's from upper management saying "No, don't do an upgrade yet" then shame on them.
The point is, engineers have to have current equipment and software to work on. It's that simple.
When I was at a local sheet metal company, every year I was going through software upgrades because our clients mandated that on us. If we were ever without ability to design parts (or open their drawings) they'd have dropped the contract with us for that part. Costing us tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars.
And that is because once we got their drawings, and confirmed everything was good (or completely did the work from scratch companies like Caterpiller and Siemens) we were a verified and certified OEM manufacturer.
Huge money there. Upgrading cost was pennies in comparison.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:
No-one has said they haven't been, have they? Although I think $250 is a bit over-priced, but I'm guessing the reason is that they don't want to further antagonise the OEMS who need to shift new Windows 10 hardware.
What about going for the $88 OEM deal? I know it is a pain compared to the full retail box, but even if you use every copy on two machines, it's much cheaper.
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Went to look at CDW to see what they had for info and they have this, which is just cruel...
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@Carnival-Boy do you have access to VL Open?
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CDW has the retail box for $199. Not great, but a little better.
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@scottalanmiller said in Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:
What about going for the $88 OEM deal? I know it is a pain compared to the full retail box, but even if you use every copy on two machines, it's much cheaper.
Doesn't an OEM licence have to be used on a brand new machine? Not sure what you mean by "use every copy on two machines"? I'm not very familiar with OEM licencing.
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@scottalanmiller said in Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:
@Carnival-Boy do you have access to VL Open?
We do. I will look for pricing on that. So VL offers an upgrade version, but retail doesn't? Seems odd.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:
@scottalanmiller said in Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:
@Carnival-Boy do you have access to VL Open?
We do. I will look for pricing on that. So VL offers an upgrade version, but retail doesn't? Seems odd.
It's because VL is only upgrade
That's all that VL ever is (traditionally at least.) I think that they are using the system to push people to the VL world. -
@scottalanmiller said in Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:
It's because VL is only upgrade
Ah yes! Of course. Good point
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@Carnival-Boy said in Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:
@scottalanmiller said in Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:
What about going for the $88 OEM deal? I know it is a pain compared to the full retail box, but even if you use every copy on two machines, it's much cheaper.
Doesn't an OEM licence have to be used on a brand new machine? Not sure what you mean by "use every copy on two machines"? I'm not very familiar with OEM licencing.
No, no such requirement. OEM is perfectly fine for a used machine. But once you use it, it's tied to that machine forever (technically the motherboard.) So if you have Windows 7 OEM on a machine today, and you buy Windows 10 OEM for it this afternoon, both your Windows 7 and WIndows 10 licenses are applied to that one machine, forever. You can never reuse either of them (but you can dual boot Win 7 and 10 if you wanted to.)
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There is a bizarre requirement, that might be removed now, that no one pays attention to, that OEM used to have to be sold with a piece of hardware. So it was common to sell it with a memory stick, hard drive, USB stick, etc. That's been lifted or is so weird that it is totally ignored today.
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@scottalanmiller said in Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:
There is a bizarre requirement, that might be removed now, that no one pays attention to, that OEM used to have to be sold with a piece of hardware. So it was common to sell it with a memory stick, hard drive, USB stick, etc. That's been lifted or is so weird that it is totally ignored today.
I remember that, the first computer system I built I bought Windows
XPME actually, and with the CD and Key came a memory module.I was very confused at first trying to figure out what I was supposed to do with this part.... lol
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@DustinB3403 said in Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:
@scottalanmiller said in Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:
There is a bizarre requirement, that might be removed now, that no one pays attention to, that OEM used to have to be sold with a piece of hardware. So it was common to sell it with a memory stick, hard drive, USB stick, etc. That's been lifted or is so weird that it is totally ignored today.
I remember that, the first computer system I built I bought Windows
XPME actually, and with the CD and Key came a memory module.I was very confused at first trying to figure out what I was supposed to do with this part.... lol
They often sent dead parts in the box, just kept dead memory and stuff laying around and tossed it in the box. Problem was, MS faced legal problems from that that they didn't want.... like people being able to say that the license was tied to the memory instead of the mobo (which is how it used to be) so that dead memory could be kept and the OEM applied to machine after machine. So they moved to just tying it to the mobo.
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@scottalanmiller Yeah I could see how that could become a big issue...
Well hey you guys have been sending me dead RAM with every purchase.....
Just affix the key to the RAM, and throw that into a locker somewhere. Product keys for life.
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@scottalanmiller said in Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:
That's been lifted or is so weird that it is totally ignored today.
From Microsoft.com:
If you are building a system for your personal use or installing an additional operating system in a virtual machine, you will need to purchase a full version of Windows 10, available in FPP. Windows 10, Windows 8.1, and Windows 7 system builder software does not permit personal use, and is intended only for preinstallation on customer systems that will be sold to end users.*OEM is system builder, isn't it? That seems pretty clear, doesn't it?
https://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/windows-licensing-for-personal-use.aspx -
@Carnival-Boy said in Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:
@scottalanmiller said in Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:
That's been lifted or is so weird that it is totally ignored today.
From Microsoft.com:
If you are building a system for your personal use or installing an additional operating system in a virtual machine, you will need to purchase a full version of Windows 10, available in FPP. Windows 10, Windows 8.1, and Windows 7 system builder software does not permit personal use, and is intended only for preinstallation on customer systems that will be sold to end users.*OEM is system builder, isn't it? That seems pretty clear, doesn't it?
https://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/windows-licensing-for-personal-use.aspxA really simple way to handle this would be to have a sub company purchase the equipment and key, build it out, and then sell the equipment for $.01 to the parent company.
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@DustinB3403 said in Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:
@scottalanmiller Yeah I could see how that could become a big issue...
Well hey you guys have been sending me dead RAM with every purchase.....
Just affix the key to the RAM, and throw that into a locker somewhere. Product keys for life.
Yup, for a brief time period, that was what everyone did. Box o' keys on sticks.
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@Carnival-Boy said in Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:
@scottalanmiller said in Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:
That's been lifted or is so weird that it is totally ignored today.
From Microsoft.com:
If you are building a system for your personal use or installing an additional operating system in a virtual machine, you will need to purchase a full version of Windows 10, available in FPP. Windows 10, Windows 8.1, and Windows 7 system builder software does not permit personal use, and is intended only for preinstallation on customer systems that will be sold to end users.*OEM is system builder, isn't it? That seems pretty clear, doesn't it?
https://www.microsoft.com/OEM/en/licensing/sblicensing/Pages/windows-licensing-for-personal-use.aspxThat's why they send you a part with the license. If you are doing ANY changes, like adding memory or a drive, technically you ARE a system builder.
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@DustinB3403 said in Paying to upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 10:
A really simple way to handle this would be to have a sub company purchase the equipment and key, build it out, and then sell the equipment for $.01 to the parent company.
You think that's really simple? We're not Enron.
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Anyway, I'm not going down the OEM route. Firstly, I don't believe it's in the spirit of the licence. And secondly, I get enough hassle during a Microsoft audit as it is without adding any potential complications.
