I Would Fire Someone For....



  • This gets said a bit. How often is it true? What kinds of things are really reasonable? Someone said something in another thread that I was reading this morning and it got me thinking... sure there are technical decisions that are so insanely awful that we need to just fire someone because whatever thought process led to that point is so bad that you can't trust them. Many times it is because you assume that they are either doing something illegal (kickbacks, stealing data, etc.) or just unethical (not doing their job and hoping that no one noticed.) Often it's not that someone should really be fired, but they should be audited: why would you have spent $3,000 on X when $100 on Y would have done the job better, what drove you to this decision?

    But there are some technical decisions that are just so bad that you couldn't seriously keep someone around, right?

    What are some examples of "they'd be shown the door" and/or "we'd need to seriously investigate why this was done and if there wasn't an excusable reason... there is the door"?



  • @scottalanmiller Using RAID 5 🙂



  • @Nic said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    @scottalanmiller Using RAID 5 with spinning rust

    FTFY!



  • @Nic said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    @scottalanmiller Using RAID 5 🙂

    That's definitely one that comes to mind. I think that that one is extreme (even with spinning rust) but it certainly would prompt some serious questions...

    • How did you determine that RAID 5 was acceptable?
    • What made you feel that you knew enough about RAID and storage to not get a second opinion before deploying?
    • Do you not consider storage to be critical enough to either understand thoroughly or to get someone who does understand it to oversee your decisions?
    • When you calculated the risk factors of resilver, secondary drive loss and URE risks, how did this get chosen over other options?
    • Did you just "hear" about this somewhere and hope that we would not notice that you don't understand RAID basics?
    • Did you not post on ML or SW and look for opinions?
    • Did you not use available resources as there are thousands of posts on Spiceworks about this topic, more than any other topic.
    • How did you manage to avoid the common knowledge around such a basic, and loudly discussed, topic?
    • How is your knowledge outdated by nearly a decade?

  • Banned

    @scottalanmiller said

    • Did you not use available resources as there are thousands of posts on Spiceworks about this topic, more than any other topic.
    • How did you manage to avoid the common knowledge around such a basic, and loudly discussed, topic?
    • How is your knowledge outdated by nearly a decade?

    Most of the world does not use Spiceworks.
    A lot of IT admins choose not to engage in IT communities.
    PPTP VPN on 2012 R2 server installs is acceptable to some.

    Drops mic, walks away


  • Banned

    Stealing.
    Lying.
    No commitment, zero energy, just slothful.
    No desire/drive to improve on weak areas.

    These for me are the big 4, I'm not really into the "He wasted $$$ fire him" because I've done it in business and regretted it, mistakes do happen but you do learn from him but point 4, if there is no desire to improve after the mistake, then that's when we have problems.



  • @Breffni-Potter said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    Stealing.
    Lying.
    No commitment, zero energy, just slothful.
    No desire/drive to improve on weak areas.

    These for me are the big 4, I'm not really into the "He wasted $$$ fire him" because I've done it in business and regretted it, mistakes do happen but you do learn from him but point 4, if there is no desire to improve after the mistake, then that's when we have problems.

    I'm with you on the first two but for the second two I'd investigate to see if there's some underlying reason for the low drive. Could be a medical or family issue that could be corrected with some help. Especially if they were previously a good employee.


  • Banned

    @Nic said

    I'm with you on the first two but for the second two I'd investigate to see if there's some underlying reason for the low drive. Could be a medical or family issue that could be corrected with some help. Especially if they were previously a good employee.

    Yes but then that could also trigger the first 2 to happen as well.

    I'm assuming that the usual reasonable things have been done and this has been over time, not a one off "YOU FIRED!!!" because reasons.

    My 5th one would be, useless team leaders who can't handle the 1st four things.



  • @Breffni-Potter said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    @scottalanmiller said

    • Did you not use available resources as there are thousands of posts on Spiceworks about this topic, more than any other topic.
    • How did you manage to avoid the common knowledge around such a basic, and loudly discussed, topic?
    • How is your knowledge outdated by nearly a decade?

    Most of the world does not use Spiceworks.

    But YOUR staff is part of that?



  • @Breffni-Potter said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    A lot of IT admins choose not to engage in IT communities.

    Good point.



  • I'd fire people for intentionally not participating in online communities or an equivalent peer and professional support infrastructure. Without that, they cannot gauge if they are doing their jobs in an even remotely adequate way (outside of the enterprise.)



  • @Breffni-Potter said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    PPTP VPN on 2012 R2 server installs is acceptable to some.

    But to you? Certainly not to me.



  • @Breffni-Potter said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    Stealing.
    Lying.
    No commitment, zero energy, just slothful.
    No desire/drive to improve on weak areas.

    These for me are the big 4, I'm not really into the "He wasted $$$ fire him" because I've done it in business and regretted it, mistakes do happen but you do learn from him but point 4, if there is no desire to improve after the mistake, then that's when we have problems.

    What's the difference between, say, choosing Cisco when Ubiquit will do, and stealing? It's not taking money from the till, but if they are wasting your money (or someone's money) because they guessed that they could not do their job and didn't think that they would get caught but were willing to get paid anyway... isn't that stealing just as much?


  • Banned

    @scottalanmiller said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    @Breffni-Potter said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    @scottalanmiller said

    • Did you not use available resources as there are thousands of posts on Spiceworks about this topic, more than any other topic.
    • How did you manage to avoid the common knowledge around such a basic, and loudly discussed, topic?
    • How is your knowledge outdated by nearly a decade?

    Most of the world does not use Spiceworks.

    But YOUR staff is part of that?

    What do you mean sorry?

    Spiceworks is a bubble. I know a lot of guys who find answers to it on google but never sign up and engage or post, I know more who think "oh yeah that free app"



  • @scottalanmiller said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    But there are some technical decisions that are just so bad that you couldn't seriously keep someone around, right?

    The thread is not about lying or stealing or low drive. It's about technical choices so bad, blatantly wrong or unethical that we would fire or look into firing someone for them.



  • @Breffni-Potter said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    Spiceworks is a bubble. I know a lot of guys who find answers to it on google but never sign up and engage or post, I know more who think "oh yeah that free app"

    And you'd be happy employing those people?



  • @Breffni-Potter said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    But YOUR staff is part of that?

    What do you mean sorry?

    The question in this thread is.... what technical "mistakes", decisions, happenings that your staff might make would make you decide that they were not employable - for whatever reason be it lack of competence, lack of ethics, etc.


  • Banned

    @scottalanmiller said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    @Breffni-Potter said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    Spiceworks is a bubble. I know a lot of guys who find answers to it on google but never sign up and engage or post, I know more who think "oh yeah that free app"

    And you'd be happy employing those people?

    Nope, never said that.

    I wouldn't not employ someone based on no community involvement, I spent most of my time in other communities but nothing specifically for IT because I was surrounded by other tech guys.



  • @Breffni-Potter said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    @scottalanmiller said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    @Breffni-Potter said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    Spiceworks is a bubble. I know a lot of guys who find answers to it on google but never sign up and engage or post, I know more who think "oh yeah that free app"

    And you'd be happy employing those people?

    Nope, never said that.

    I wouldn't not employ someone based on no community involvement, I spent most of my time in other communities but nothing specifically for IT because I was surrounded by other tech guys.

    That's why I pointed out that "if you had a peer and professional support network that gave you the kind of insight and oversight that these communities provide" would be okay.



  • @Breffni-Potter said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    @scottalanmiller said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    @Breffni-Potter said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    Spiceworks is a bubble. I know a lot of guys who find answers to it on google but never sign up and engage or post, I know more who think "oh yeah that free app"

    And you'd be happy employing those people?

    Nope, never said that.

    If you were not implying that, what was the point of knowing lots of people that wouldn't qualify? Are you just saying that you'd fire lots of people that you know based on that?


  • Banned

    @scottalanmiller said

    If you were not implying that, what was the point of knowing lots of people that wouldn't qualify? Are you just saying that you'd fire lots of people that you know based on that?

    No, I was replying to your 3 lines that I quoted. I.e most of the world does not use Spiceworks, each line of mine is in response to your 3 lines.



  • @Breffni-Potter said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    @scottalanmiller said

    If you were not implying that, what was the point of knowing lots of people that wouldn't qualify? Are you just saying that you'd fire lots of people that you know based on that?

    No, I was replying to your 3 lines that I quoted. I.e most of the world does not use Spiceworks, each line of mine is in response to your 3 lines.

    But MY lines were responses to "why did YOUR staff think RAID 5 was okay."

    So I'm confused by your response. What difference does it make what most of the world does unless you are okay with them not looking things up before deploying?



  • @Breffni-Potter said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    Stealing.
    Lying.
    No commitment, zero energy, just slothful.
    No desire/drive to improve on weak areas.

    These for me are the big 4, I'm not really into the "He wasted $$$ fire him" because I've done it in business and regretted it, mistakes do happen but you do learn from him but point 4, if there is no desire to improve after the mistake, then that's when we have problems.

    yep as long as they can learn and improve, its not fireable. But once they DGAF, you're out the door



  • @scottalanmiller said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    @Breffni-Potter said in I Would Fire Someone For....:

    PPTP VPN on 2012 R2 server installs is acceptable to some.

    But to you? Certainly not to me.

    Of course (I hope ) not to us.. but it's there - so some will think.. hey if MS includes it it must be ok.. just like some see RAID 5, so hey it must be OK.

    Of course those aren't reasons to use it.



  • So here's a story I'll share.

    A friend was fired and here are the details I know.

    Long ago a new server was installed. It was a VMWare ESXi host with SAN.
    A backup solution was not purchased.
    The IT guy asked for management to provide funds to purchase a backup solution. management said no.
    There was not enough left over storage to use NTbackup.
    Shadowcopy was used in the few instances where people needed a file restored.

    Old boss left, new boss onboard.

    The network was hit by cryptoware on a Friday and not discovered until Monday, The Shadowcopy window was past. All data was lost.
    New boss makes employee clean up the network and new boss approves new backup solution.
    Several months go by, the new boss is micromanaging the employee.
    New boss fires employee saying they don't have time to micromanage the employee.

    The employee believes the new boss was only micromanaging because of the previous failure, not because the employee wasn't getting tasks done, of course we can't know the reality of that situation.



  • I would fire someone for...

    ...recommending Lenovo.



  • @BBigford hahahahahahaha. too true!



  • Neglect. Not doing your due diligence is a big thing for me. Checking that backups are running regularly. etc.



  • Failing to learn basic functions, after repeatedly showing the employee how to do a specific function.



    • Lying (I'm open for virtually anything, but flat-out lying is not ok)
    • Stealing
    • Keep doing the same mistakes over and over (after someone noticed that and explained the problem)
    • Someone who keeps refusing to learn
    • Pushing work to others -> laziness

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