What Are You Doing Right Now
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@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@NerdyDad said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
How many households still have their biological father in them? How many kids still live one, if not both, of their biological parents? How many children are being raised by a family member that is not their biological parent?
We are the first era to know who the biological father was. It's believed that the family unit is strengthening, not decaying. The past wasn't that idealogical. You can make lots of fine arguments that family units are not strong. but I don't think that you can make that argument in the relative sense to the past.
We are, for example, the generation with the lowest teen pregnancy rates, ever. So many assumed social problems of the past are effectively gone today. The past wasn't the rosy place that we imagine, not one hundred years ago, not a thousand years ago.
Since you brought it up, why is teen pregnancy a bad thing? From what I can tell, mostly because society (people) have deemed it so. Of course biologically, we are living much longer than we did 100 years ago, and definitely a lot longer than 500 years ago, so the need to jump right into having children to keep the species alive is no longer there, but biologically I thought we were, as a species, designed to have children in the teenage years?
Because teenagers are still immature idiots, nowhere near ready to handle the responsibility of raising a child. There's something to be said for living some of your life, having some real world experiences before the shackles of Parenthood are upon you.
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@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@NerdyDad said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
How many households still have their biological father in them? How many kids still live one, if not both, of their biological parents? How many children are being raised by a family member that is not their biological parent?
We are the first era to know who the biological father was. It's believed that the family unit is strengthening, not decaying. The past wasn't that idealogical. You can make lots of fine arguments that family units are not strong. but I don't think that you can make that argument in the relative sense to the past.
We are, for example, the generation with the lowest teen pregnancy rates, ever. So many assumed social problems of the past are effectively gone today. The past wasn't the rosy place that we imagine, not one hundred years ago, not a thousand years ago.
Since you brought it up, why is teen pregnancy a bad thing?
How about destroying one's chances of furthering education as a start. Insufficient income would be next....
What about teen pregnancy prevents further education? Insufficient income? Well, I guess all those kinds in China should just be dead then, eh? or you pick whatever third world country you like.
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@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
My personal Scott quote of the day: "Democracy is the political belief that the means justify the ends."
Sadly I definitely see this being the case these days. The UK is a super frightening place right now with the new Snooper's Charter and Theresa May's new manifesto.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/theresa-may-internet-conservatives-government-a7744176.htmlit was always the case, right? Democracy was only promoted for this very purpose.
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@dbeato said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@NerdyDad said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
My personal belief is that the household has started to decay. As generations come and go, morals have become less and less prevalent.
I'd argue very much the opposite. Moral decay is not what we see, we see a society more and more concerned with morality and holding it to a higher and higher standard.
I would argue that although there is more higher standard to be held towards people now, people are not doing so. They cannot keep up perfectly. So on a side you see a higher standard being held accountable to important/prominent people but for everyone else there is nothing.
I don't see that. I see it everywhere. From how we treat people to how we treat animals to laws to everything. The world, especially the first world, is becoming SO much more ethical than it was even a generation ago. Our standards have changed so much that we are often offended by things that were commonplace not so long ago.
Just the whole trend of people being offended by so much... it's because old timers want to get away with things that the younger generations no longer tolerate.
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@RojoLoco said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@NerdyDad said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
How many households still have their biological father in them? How many kids still live one, if not both, of their biological parents? How many children are being raised by a family member that is not their biological parent?
We are the first era to know who the biological father was. It's believed that the family unit is strengthening, not decaying. The past wasn't that idealogical. You can make lots of fine arguments that family units are not strong. but I don't think that you can make that argument in the relative sense to the past.
We are, for example, the generation with the lowest teen pregnancy rates, ever. So many assumed social problems of the past are effectively gone today. The past wasn't the rosy place that we imagine, not one hundred years ago, not a thousand years ago.
Since you brought it up, why is teen pregnancy a bad thing? From what I can tell, mostly because society (people) have deemed it so. Of course biologically, we are living much longer than we did 100 years ago, and definitely a lot longer than 500 years ago, so the need to jump right into having children to keep the species alive is no longer there, but biologically I thought we were, as a species, designed to have children in the teenage years?
Because teenagers are still immature idiots, nowhere near ready to handle the responsibility of raising a child. There's something to be said for living some of your life, having some real world experiences before the shackles of Parenthood are upon you.
Huh, I wonder how we got here as a species then? Most of our human time on this earth had our species having children while being teens. That seems to disprove the lack of ability to raise children.
Frankly, I would say today's society of not holding people personally responsible for their actions has lead to bigger problems of why people don't raise their children responsibly.
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@NerdyDad said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
But @dafyre is right. Some people are willing to do whatever they can to keep living the lifestyle that they are comfortable with. Whether that involves voting, rallying, protesting, or something more violent, some are dead set at change that they will do whatever it takes to protect it.
What people need to learn is how to adapt, to ebb and flow.
They don't need to, we have democracy to protect the status quo.
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@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
My personal Scott quote of the day: "Democracy is the political belief that the means justify the ends."
Sadly I definitely see this being the case these days. The UK is a super frightening place right now with the new Snooper's Charter and Theresa May's new manifesto.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/theresa-may-internet-conservatives-government-a7744176.htmlit was always the case, right? Democracy was only promoted for this very purpose.
Well, you definitely make the argument. But I can't just sit by and accept that your dictatorship idea is really the right way either.
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@NerdyDad said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
You are correct, but moral disposition dictates actions. We also place education and career above family. That's why we don't get married until after high school at least. Moral dictates that we are married before having kids. Therefore, teen pregnancies are frowned upon.
I don't agree. We place family so high on the list that people wait until after education and career before starting families. Instead of just getting pregnant as soon as biologically possible, we as a species have changed our views as society and opportunities have changed. We know that people having kids between 30-38 give their kids the best advantages in life and have the most time to spend with their kids. People are having fewer kids today - partially because kids are no longer indentured slaves or disposable but are now to be treasured and valued.
Family is where we've come the farthest. Never before have we cared for our children like we do now. And that waiting to have kids is a key artefact in that.
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@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
My personal Scott quote of the day: "Democracy is the political belief that the means justify the ends."
Sadly I definitely see this being the case these days. The UK is a super frightening place right now with the new Snooper's Charter and Theresa May's new manifesto.
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/theresa-may-internet-conservatives-government-a7744176.htmlit was always the case, right? Democracy was only promoted for this very purpose.
Well, you definitely make the argument. But I can't just sit by and accept that your dictatorship idea is really the right way either.
Sure you can, that's the POINT of democracy. If you believe in democracy, then you believe in its results.
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@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@RojoLoco said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@NerdyDad said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
How many households still have their biological father in them? How many kids still live one, if not both, of their biological parents? How many children are being raised by a family member that is not their biological parent?
We are the first era to know who the biological father was. It's believed that the family unit is strengthening, not decaying. The past wasn't that idealogical. You can make lots of fine arguments that family units are not strong. but I don't think that you can make that argument in the relative sense to the past.
We are, for example, the generation with the lowest teen pregnancy rates, ever. So many assumed social problems of the past are effectively gone today. The past wasn't the rosy place that we imagine, not one hundred years ago, not a thousand years ago.
Since you brought it up, why is teen pregnancy a bad thing? From what I can tell, mostly because society (people) have deemed it so. Of course biologically, we are living much longer than we did 100 years ago, and definitely a lot longer than 500 years ago, so the need to jump right into having children to keep the species alive is no longer there, but biologically I thought we were, as a species, designed to have children in the teenage years?
Because teenagers are still immature idiots, nowhere near ready to handle the responsibility of raising a child. There's something to be said for living some of your life, having some real world experiences before the shackles of Parenthood are upon you.
Huh, I wonder how we got here as a species then? Most of our human time on this earth had our species having children while being teens. That seems to disprove the lack of ability to raise children.
Frankly, I would say today's society of not holding people personally responsible for their actions has lead to bigger problems of why people don't raise their children responsibly.
Teens used to be adults. You used to be an adult at 15.
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@NerdyDad said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
You are correct, but moral disposition dictates actions. We also place education and career above family. That's why we don't get married until after high school at least. Moral dictates that we are married before having kids. Therefore, teen pregnancies are frowned upon.
I feel like this is a conflicted statement. On one hand, you make it seem like we are morally tied to having loads of kids when we are young and that waiting to have them is bad. But then feel that being married and having two parents is good, which generally requires waiting. can't be both ways.
Teen pregnancies are frowned upon moreso because....
- Teens rarely have the resources to take care of children.
- Teens are not legally given the responsibilities and capability to fully care for children.
- Teens having children disrupts our economic stall model that we depend on so much.
- Teens do not accumulate the resources to pass on to their kids fast enough to let those kids leverage them as they become adults.
- Teens having kids is only good when a society's goal is "fodder" for teh population. once the goal is higher quality of life, you need people to wait on having kids.
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Traditionally teens were expected to have kids just because there was no birth control and no one expected them to not be sexual active. Both of those things have changed in the last thirty years. Literally.
People like to think that abstinence was a traditional value, but it's a modern thing. Even the famous "puritans" were sex crazed by today's standards. We literally live in the most sexual conservative culture in known history. The puritans used to invite potential mates over for their kids to "try out" for a night or two before they courted. The idea that sex was for after marriage was totally unheard of in that time period. The idea that biological parents were known or would be there for the kids was also pretty foreign.
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@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@NerdyDad said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
How many households still have their biological father in them? How many kids still live one, if not both, of their biological parents? How many children are being raised by a family member that is not their biological parent?
We are the first era to know who the biological father was. It's believed that the family unit is strengthening, not decaying. The past wasn't that idealogical. You can make lots of fine arguments that family units are not strong. but I don't think that you can make that argument in the relative sense to the past.
We are, for example, the generation with the lowest teen pregnancy rates, ever. So many assumed social problems of the past are effectively gone today. The past wasn't the rosy place that we imagine, not one hundred years ago, not a thousand years ago.
Since you brought it up, why is teen pregnancy a bad thing?
How about destroying one's chances of furthering education as a start. Insufficient income would be next....
What about teen pregnancy prevents further education? Insufficient income? Well, I guess all those kinds in China should just be dead then, eh? or you pick whatever third world country you like.
Oh
https://www.dosomething.org/us/facts/11-facts-about-teen-pregnancyI don't know
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/75-001-x/2008105/article/10577-eng.htmMaybe it has something
http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/teen-pregnancy-affects-graduation-rates-postcard.aspxto do with
http://www.scaany.org/documents/teen_pregnancy_dec08.pdfhaving to raise a kid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
https://www.cdc.gov/teenpregnancy/about/ -
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@NerdyDad said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
How many households still have their biological father in them? How many kids still live one, if not both, of their biological parents? How many children are being raised by a family member that is not their biological parent?
We are the first era to know who the biological father was. It's believed that the family unit is strengthening, not decaying. The past wasn't that idealogical. You can make lots of fine arguments that family units are not strong. but I don't think that you can make that argument in the relative sense to the past.
We are, for example, the generation with the lowest teen pregnancy rates, ever. So many assumed social problems of the past are effectively gone today. The past wasn't the rosy place that we imagine, not one hundred years ago, not a thousand years ago.
Since you brought it up, why is teen pregnancy a bad thing?
How about destroying one's chances of furthering education as a start. Insufficient income would be next....
What about teen pregnancy prevents further education? Insufficient income? Well, I guess all those kinds in China should just be dead then, eh? or you pick whatever third world country you like.
Teenagers (the majority) do not make any income to even support themselves in our society - how are they to provide for the child? Let alone further themselves!
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@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@NerdyDad said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
How many households still have their biological father in them? How many kids still live one, if not both, of their biological parents? How many children are being raised by a family member that is not their biological parent?
We are the first era to know who the biological father was. It's believed that the family unit is strengthening, not decaying. The past wasn't that idealogical. You can make lots of fine arguments that family units are not strong. but I don't think that you can make that argument in the relative sense to the past.
We are, for example, the generation with the lowest teen pregnancy rates, ever. So many assumed social problems of the past are effectively gone today. The past wasn't the rosy place that we imagine, not one hundred years ago, not a thousand years ago.
Since you brought it up, why is teen pregnancy a bad thing?
How about destroying one's chances of furthering education as a start. Insufficient income would be next....
What about teen pregnancy prevents further education? Insufficient income? Well, I guess all those kinds in China should just be dead then, eh? or you pick whatever third world country you like.
Lack of education does not lead to death. you do realize that China as one of the lowest teen birth rates, right?
Everything about pregnancy, teen or otherwise, leads to less educational and career options. Kids take time and resources that would otherwise be available for education and career.
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@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@NerdyDad said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
How many households still have their biological father in them? How many kids still live one, if not both, of their biological parents? How many children are being raised by a family member that is not their biological parent?
We are the first era to know who the biological father was. It's believed that the family unit is strengthening, not decaying. The past wasn't that idealogical. You can make lots of fine arguments that family units are not strong. but I don't think that you can make that argument in the relative sense to the past.
We are, for example, the generation with the lowest teen pregnancy rates, ever. So many assumed social problems of the past are effectively gone today. The past wasn't the rosy place that we imagine, not one hundred years ago, not a thousand years ago.
Since you brought it up, why is teen pregnancy a bad thing?
How about destroying one's chances of furthering education as a start. Insufficient income would be next....
What about teen pregnancy prevents further education? Insufficient income? Well, I guess all those kinds in China should just be dead then, eh? or you pick whatever third world country you like.
Teenagers (the majority) do not make any income to even support themselves in our society - how are they to provide for the child? Let alone further themselves!
These are all modern problems. A problem brought on by our modern society.
As Scott said, you used to be an adult at 15.
I don't disagree that in this modern society, that teen pregnancy is personally detrimental, but in my mind it is because society allows it to be.
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@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@NerdyDad said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
How many households still have their biological father in them? How many kids still live one, if not both, of their biological parents? How many children are being raised by a family member that is not their biological parent?
We are the first era to know who the biological father was. It's believed that the family unit is strengthening, not decaying. The past wasn't that idealogical. You can make lots of fine arguments that family units are not strong. but I don't think that you can make that argument in the relative sense to the past.
We are, for example, the generation with the lowest teen pregnancy rates, ever. So many assumed social problems of the past are effectively gone today. The past wasn't the rosy place that we imagine, not one hundred years ago, not a thousand years ago.
Since you brought it up, why is teen pregnancy a bad thing?
How about destroying one's chances of furthering education as a start. Insufficient income would be next....
What about teen pregnancy prevents further education? Insufficient income? Well, I guess all those kinds in China should just be dead then, eh? or you pick whatever third world country you like.
Teenagers (the majority) do not make any income to even support themselves in our society - how are they to provide for the child? Let alone further themselves!
And not just because teens are worthless (although they are, what a waste) but because they are legally barred from most jobs. Most teens can't legally work until 14 at least. And then most can't get anything like a "real" job till 16. And then those are still controlled by third parties that don't care about them and have very limited hours for work and all kinds of basic work is off limits (can't even use knives, for example.)
Until you are 18 you are not broadly employable through no fault of your own.
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@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@MattSpeller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@Dashrender said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@scottalanmiller said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
@NerdyDad said in What Are You Doing Right Now:
How many households still have their biological father in them? How many kids still live one, if not both, of their biological parents? How many children are being raised by a family member that is not their biological parent?
We are the first era to know who the biological father was. It's believed that the family unit is strengthening, not decaying. The past wasn't that idealogical. You can make lots of fine arguments that family units are not strong. but I don't think that you can make that argument in the relative sense to the past.
We are, for example, the generation with the lowest teen pregnancy rates, ever. So many assumed social problems of the past are effectively gone today. The past wasn't the rosy place that we imagine, not one hundred years ago, not a thousand years ago.
Since you brought it up, why is teen pregnancy a bad thing?
How about destroying one's chances of furthering education as a start. Insufficient income would be next....
What about teen pregnancy prevents further education? Insufficient income? Well, I guess all those kinds in China should just be dead then, eh? or you pick whatever third world country you like.
Teenagers (the majority) do not make any income to even support themselves in our society - how are they to provide for the child? Let alone further themselves!
These are all modern problems. A problem brought on by our modern society.
As Scott said, you used to be an adult at 15.
I don't disagree that in this modern society, that teen pregnancy is personally detrimental, but in my mind it is because society allows it to be.
I think it is less that it allows it to be (although true to some degree for sure) but moreso because the world has changed. There is MORE TO LEARN, longer to live, longer to work than ever before. Naturally as our strongest life period to rear and care for children moves to later in life, the more advantages we give to kids born later and the more focus we put on not putting kids at a disadvantage by having kids earlier in life.
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In 1750, having a kid at 14 years old already meant that you had finished school and were employable. You had a good twenty years of career in front of you, enough time for your kid(s) to have a kid or two before you retired. If you didn't have kids then, you'd not be around to get them to adult hood.
In 2017, your career doesn't start until you are nearly 28 (30s if you are a doctor) and you will work for the next 40+ years. Enough time to have kids and have their kids around before you retire. It's a totally different world. But if you look at it from an education and career aspect, we are attempting to have kids at the same point in our lives as we used to.
Otherwise, people would have been having kids when they were eight or nine before!
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Going have to bow out for now. Have to head to Colo before going to @scottalanmiller's house tonight.
