Who do you call for IT assistance
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@irj said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
It can't, IT isn't a certifiable process. Anything that is certified can't be competitive in IT and as IT is a performance field, that makes it an antithesis of IT.
Have you heard of Microsoft 365, AWS, or Azure before. They go through certification processes like HITRUST. I'd say they are a tiny bit profitable.
Excluding the tech giants, HITRUST is worth a ton of money. If you're selling software or housing data it boosts your credibility and limits the risk factor since your internal infrastructure is audited. Not only is HITRUST profitable for businesses that sell software or services, it's actually pretty damn good. You should look into the requirements for the 3 levels. They are pretty stringent and overall good security practices.
Without some external auditing of your IT infrastructure, you'll lose alot of potential big customers and small ones with money.
What does any of those statements have to do with what I said, though?
Sure, winning the lottery is profitable. But that doesn't make it a certification process for the work of doing IT.
Also, getting paid to do a job and doing a job isn't the same thing. You are looking at it from "how do we make money" from the vendor angle, not addressing at all how "do we get actual IT support" from the customer angle. No matter how rich person X is, doesn't imply that person Y does job Z.
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Also, getting paid to do a job and doing a job isn't the same thing. You are looking at it from "how do we make money" from the vendor angle, not addressing at all how "do we get actual IT support" from the customer angle. No matter how rich person X is, doesn't imply that person Y does job Z.
You better believe the how we can make money side is important. How can you pay talent and expand your company without making money? That one just seems so obvious.
The idea on the customer side is they will need less support with these processes in place. Externally proving you can do Backups and DR is pretty vital to the customer. Saying we do it well or we've been in IT 30 years isn't enough to convince companies that a valid process is in place. When you work with sensitive data and/or are making money using the tool you need security. Without audits and certification in place how can you guarantee your vendor has your PHI or financial data safeguarded? Also can they backup and restore data and their infrastructure within very little downtime. SLA don't mean shit when it cost your reputation and income.
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@irj said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
Also, getting paid to do a job and doing a job isn't the same thing. You are looking at it from "how do we make money" from the vendor angle, not addressing at all how "do we get actual IT support" from the customer angle. No matter how rich person X is, doesn't imply that person Y does job Z.
You better believe the how we can make money side is important. How can you pay talent and expand your company without making money? That one just seems so obvious.
The idea on the customer side is they will need less support with these processes in place. Externally proving you can do Backups and DR is pretty vital to the customer. Saying we do it well or we've been in IT 30 years isn't enough to convince companies that a valid process is in place. When you work with sensitive data and/or are making money using the tool you need security. Without audits and certification in place how can you guarantee your vendor has your PHI or financial data safeguarded? Also can they backup and restore data and their infrastructure within very little downtime. SLA don't mean shit when it cost your reputation and income.
I'm lost. The question that Dash had is about how can he get someone who can step in and does what he does. But this answer is about how someone doing something different can make money. I'm not arguing that making money is good, only that this doesn't relate to what he's looking for.
MS365 is a great example. If Dash has to advise his firm on user workflow optimizations for their medical records system, and you think that you can just call MS support for MS365 and say they need to send someone in to advise how to best use their hardware and software... that conversation will just end in confusion. They won't even know what you mean. A vendor selling one tiny service does not replace an IT oversight process. Even loads of vendors each doing many slices aggregated do not, they still require IT to put it all together. That's the piece that this kind of vendor, and any certification, do nothing for.
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@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
I'm lost. The question that Dash had is about how can he get someone who can step in and does what he does. But this answer is about how someone doing something different can make money. I'm not arguing that making money is good, only that this doesn't relate to what he's looking for.
HITRUST does provide support in the way of improving your IT. It wouldn't be specific for your day to day, but with your road map. Dash and other generalists generally don't have to the time to road map and even implement moving towards IT maturity.
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@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
I'm not looking for a direct answer to the topic title.
I just had my first review with my new boss.
She asked me a question that seemed odd, but after more information was less odd due to her position.
Question: is there a certifying authority you can get certified in that you can also reach out to to get help with problems you can't solve?
Her example was SUNA - Society of Urologic Nurses and Associates. They certify nurses and have personal you can contact to get help with your questions.
IT is very broad. But to answer your question, if there is an IT issue you can't solve, you go to the product or technology's support method. If a MS issue MS support, Dell issue, then Dell support, etc...
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@obsolesce said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
I'm not looking for a direct answer to the topic title.
I just had my first review with my new boss.
She asked me a question that seemed odd, but after more information was less odd due to her position.
Question: is there a certifying authority you can get certified in that you can also reach out to to get help with problems you can't solve?
Her example was SUNA - Society of Urologic Nurses and Associates. They certify nurses and have personal you can contact to get help with your questions.
IT is very broad. But to answer your question, if there is an IT issue you can't solve, you go to the product or technology's support method. If a MS issue MS support, Dell issue, then Dell support, etc...
Which is a more detailed version of my "no" answer.
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@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
When talking about this question in my review - she said that she knew I reached out to you lot - my IT peers to get help with problems I didn't have the answers to, but she was more interested to know if there was an entity who was the authority on things IT that could answer these questions - and if so, it might be worth paying their membership fees to gain access to it. That's what nurses apparently do with SUNA
Also, ask this in reverse. IT is a business function. As how managers or the CEO handle this same thing, because you are like them, not like a nurse. You are a creative business infrastructure advisor, not an operational cog.
Their question is good, but the answer is complex. Ask them how they would answer this for themselves. If they don't know, ask them why they are asking a question they don't understand and what kind of answer they are expecting when they don't know a good answer themselves.
I did just that - and she's the one who gave me the SUNA answer. What I failed to realize she didn't answer the question correctly - she switched to something she did previously that had an answer.
Thanks, I'll try to keep this in mind for future conversations.
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@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@jt1001001 said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender Ive answered similar question from a previous manager (wo had no I-T background) by stating the vendor of the software/hardware we are having an issue with is the ultimate "authority", and proceeded to explain hardware and software support contracts and the importance of said contracts. In addition I listed other paid resources available (Experts Exchange subscription at the time).
Great point - I'll mention that in the future.
As a point of common misunderstanding because nothing is farther from being correct. It's the exact opposite. The role of internal IT (or hired IT) is to ensure you have support even fi the vendor fails.
Just went through this exact conversation for a bank. "Vendor support" as the highest level is a bizarre thing that I'd never even encountered until working in the Spiceworks community. In every company I've ever been in from tiny to Fortune 10, including at many of the big vendors that people are relying on, it is their IT departments themselves that are the ultimate support, not even their own vendor teams.
LOL - I considered mentioning that you - Scott - would say something exactly like this. I recall you for years saying - if IT has to reach out to vendor to get a solution - they potentially have already failed - or at least that's the way it felt at the time.
I don't agree with the failure point here because it should not be expected that a person supporting a product is better at support than the vendor who makes the product... Sure, there are times when we've all seen this happen - the vendor can't solve a problem and IT finds a way, but I feel that most of these situations are ones that involve things that aren't directly related to the product. -
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@pete-s said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
It can't, IT isn't a certifiable process.
ITIL certification?
IT certifies processes, but not IT. There are tons of certs for "tasks done by IT", but that's very different from certifying IT itself.
I am thinking that something more akin to a critical thinking certificate would be an IT itself cert more than anything else.
One thing I continue to learn is I don't think critically enough. it's not truly something that's tough in school.
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@irj said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
ce companies that a valid process is in place. When you work with sensitive data and/or are making money using the tool
This is so far outside the scope of my conversation.
HITRUST might be the bee's knees in certification of the platform, but it's not a certification applied to a person showing that person knows anything about IT - and that's the goal of this thread.
So far the best thing I've gleaned from this conversation is - Where's the CEO's certificate that they are a good CEO? or know CEO things? There isn't one, and IT is more akin to a CEO than it is a structured worker like a nurse or a doctor (doctor likely get a bit more leeway, but probably less than most would think).
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@obsolesce said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
I'm not looking for a direct answer to the topic title.
I just had my first review with my new boss.
She asked me a question that seemed odd, but after more information was less odd due to her position.
Question: is there a certifying authority you can get certified in that you can also reach out to to get help with problems you can't solve?
Her example was SUNA - Society of Urologic Nurses and Associates. They certify nurses and have personal you can contact to get help with your questions.
IT is very broad. But to answer your question, if there is an IT issue you can't solve, you go to the product or technology's support method. If a MS issue MS support, Dell issue, then Dell support, etc...
Here's a possible mind bender - at least it is to me at o'dark thirty and 1/4 cup of coffee....
Is an issue with an MS product or a Dell server, etc an IT issue? On the surface it definitely looks right to say it is, but when we look at how this community has brought to light all of the computer based things that aren't IT - i.e. DB Admin Not IT, etc - what specifically makes an issue an IT issue vs not one?
I'll sit back and see how much vitriol I get over this
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@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@obsolesce said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
I'm not looking for a direct answer to the topic title.
I just had my first review with my new boss.
She asked me a question that seemed odd, but after more information was less odd due to her position.
Question: is there a certifying authority you can get certified in that you can also reach out to to get help with problems you can't solve?
Her example was SUNA - Society of Urologic Nurses and Associates. They certify nurses and have personal you can contact to get help with your questions.
IT is very broad. But to answer your question, if there is an IT issue you can't solve, you go to the product or technology's support method. If a MS issue MS support, Dell issue, then Dell support, etc...
Here's a possible mind bender - at least it is to me at o'dark thirty and 1/4 cup of coffee....
Is an issue with an MS product or a Dell server, etc an IT issue? On the surface it definitely looks right to say it is, but when we look at how this community has brought to light all of the computer based things that aren't IT - i.e. DB Admin Not IT, etc - what specifically makes an issue an IT issue vs not one?
I'll sit back and see how much vitriol I get over thisI guess it all depends on whose definition of IT (Information Technology) we want to use.
If we use Oxford's Dictionary definition then IT = the study or use of systems (especially computers and telecommunications) for storing, retrieving, and sending information. Your example is covered under IT.
Change the "dictionary", get a different definition and then a different result.
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@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
LOL - I considered mentioning that you - Scott - would say something exactly like this. I recall you for years saying - if IT has to reach out to vendor to get a solution - they potentially have already failed - or at least that's the way it felt at the time.
I don't agree with the failure point here because it should not be expected that a person supporting a product is better at support than the vendor who makes the product... Sure, there are times when we've all seen this happen - the vendor can't solve a problem and IT finds a way, but I feel that most of these situations are ones that involve things that aren't directly related to the product.Agree with this you can't expect any IT Department or Team to know 100% of everything. So when someting goes wrong they will need help.
As above for me, if there's an issue with Dell you call Dell support if you can't fix
we've done it a few times when a switch wouldn't recover after a fail over. Also a SAN that stopped replicating. Yes I bet I could of fixed these myself after digging around, but as we paid for support why not use it. -
@pmoncho said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@obsolesce said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
I'm not looking for a direct answer to the topic title.
I just had my first review with my new boss.
She asked me a question that seemed odd, but after more information was less odd due to her position.
Question: is there a certifying authority you can get certified in that you can also reach out to to get help with problems you can't solve?
Her example was SUNA - Society of Urologic Nurses and Associates. They certify nurses and have personal you can contact to get help with your questions.
IT is very broad. But to answer your question, if there is an IT issue you can't solve, you go to the product or technology's support method. If a MS issue MS support, Dell issue, then Dell support, etc...
Here's a possible mind bender - at least it is to me at o'dark thirty and 1/4 cup of coffee....
Is an issue with an MS product or a Dell server, etc an IT issue? On the surface it definitely looks right to say it is, but when we look at how this community has brought to light all of the computer based things that aren't IT - i.e. DB Admin Not IT, etc - what specifically makes an issue an IT issue vs not one?
I'll sit back and see how much vitriol I get over thisI guess it all depends on whose definition of IT (Information Technology) we want to use.
If we use Oxford's Dictionary definition then IT = the study or use of systems (especially computers and telecommunications) for storing, retrieving, and sending information. Your example is covered under IT.
Change the "dictionary", get a different definition and then a different result.
There is IT the business/field term, and then there is IT the English term. In English, it's the USE of and the systems themselves. So the END users are IT. Anyone using a spreadsheet, for example, is "doing IT". In the modern world, essentially all humans are IT by that definition, even those not in a business.
Then there is the business term where IT is used for business infrastructure and that's the only situation where there is a career or field associated with it.
It's a but like using "publisher" where in one case, it refers to any kid with a crayon and paper, and in another it's a company that specialized in binding and printing.
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@hobbit666 said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
Agree with this you can't expect any IT Department or Team to know 100% of everything. So when someting goes wrong they will need help.
There's two flaws in thinking here...
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That anyone needs 100% to do their job. They need a complete scope, but no one and no vendor, in any field, knows 100%. Calling on vendors doesn't fix this problem, so if it is a requirement, you are already lost.
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That EVERY IT department shouldn't be tasked with having complete scope. Of COURSE they should. Imagine if we said the same thing about doctors or lawyers!!!
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@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@obsolesce said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
I'm not looking for a direct answer to the topic title.
I just had my first review with my new boss.
She asked me a question that seemed odd, but after more information was less odd due to her position.
Question: is there a certifying authority you can get certified in that you can also reach out to to get help with problems you can't solve?
Her example was SUNA - Society of Urologic Nurses and Associates. They certify nurses and have personal you can contact to get help with your questions.
IT is very broad. But to answer your question, if there is an IT issue you can't solve, you go to the product or technology's support method. If a MS issue MS support, Dell issue, then Dell support, etc...
Here's a possible mind bender - at least it is to me at o'dark thirty and 1/4 cup of coffee....
Is an issue with an MS product or a Dell server, etc an IT issue? On the surface it definitely looks right to say it is, but when we look at how this community has brought to light all of the computer based things that aren't IT - i.e. DB Admin Not IT, etc - what specifically makes an issue an IT issue vs not one?
I'll sit back and see how much vitriol I get over thisGenerally no. Dealing with it is an IT issue. But a manufacturing flaw or a coding error are mistakes in engineering, manufacturing or coding... not in IT. Think of IT like a driver and the server like a car. If the car has a defect, that's not the driver's issue. The driver might have to know to stop using the car, to steer, brake, or go slow to avoid a crash because of the flaw, or just know to call the vendor to have it fixed.
Going to a vendor for a non-IT issue is obvious and goes without saying. Calling a vendor to have their do our IT work for us is equally obviously bad and totally crazy. Dell and MS aren't IT vendors, they don't know IT, they have no knowledge of our organizations necessary to do IT for them, and if they get paid to do IT both of them just farm out to third party IT firms at huge markup and it's no different than if you called an IT firm yourself except you don't get to vet them and they cost double.
As someone who has run the firms that both of those specific vendors farm out to, I'm very used to the system.
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@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@pete-s said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
It can't, IT isn't a certifiable process.
ITIL certification?
IT certifies processes, but not IT. There are tons of certs for "tasks done by IT", but that's very different from certifying IT itself.
I am thinking that something more akin to a critical thinking certificate would be an IT itself cert more than anything else.
One thing I continue to learn is I don't think critically enough. it's not truly something that's tough in school.
You can't teach critical thinking, IMHO. You can only encourage or discourage it. And nothing is more discouraged in the traditional K-PhD path in the US. Every step of the process, even the steps of deciding to go on for more education, are built around "do as you are told" instead of "consider the consequences and decide."
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@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@jt1001001 said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
@dashrender Ive answered similar question from a previous manager (wo had no I-T background) by stating the vendor of the software/hardware we are having an issue with is the ultimate "authority", and proceeded to explain hardware and software support contracts and the importance of said contracts. In addition I listed other paid resources available (Experts Exchange subscription at the time).
Great point - I'll mention that in the future.
As a point of common misunderstanding because nothing is farther from being correct. It's the exact opposite. The role of internal IT (or hired IT) is to ensure you have support even fi the vendor fails.
Just went through this exact conversation for a bank. "Vendor support" as the highest level is a bizarre thing that I'd never even encountered until working in the Spiceworks community. In every company I've ever been in from tiny to Fortune 10, including at many of the big vendors that people are relying on, it is their IT departments themselves that are the ultimate support, not even their own vendor teams.
LOL - I considered mentioning that you - Scott - would say something exactly like this. I recall you for years saying - if IT has to reach out to vendor to get a solution - they potentially have already failed - or at least that's the way it felt at the time.
I don't agree with the failure point here because it should not be expected that a person supporting a product is better at support than the vendor who makes the product... Sure, there are times when we've all seen this happen - the vendor can't solve a problem and IT finds a way, but I feel that most of these situations are ones that involve things that aren't directly related to the product.If IT reaches out to get IT from a vendor, IT has failed. You can't word is as "IT reaching out" because IT has to talk to vendors all the time... for licensing, code fixes, quotes, logistics, parts replacement, etc. It's when IT reaches out to have a vendor that isn't part of the IT infrastructure do that department's job for it. Vendors are on the adversarial side of the fence, they are never part of your internal team. An IT vendor is a wholly different animal and using one is "adding to the IT team" rather than "handing the ball to the other side."
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@scottalanmiller said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
- That EVERY IT department shouldn't be tasked with having complete scope. Of COURSE they should. Imagine if we said the same thing about doctors or lawyers!!!
What? No doctor or lawyer has a complete scope - it's not practical or possible. That's why there are specialists in those fields.
Now if you're saying " we have inhouse IT, therefore we should have complete scope for everything we do in-house.... then maybe this is/could be true if, IF the huge company has tons of staff, staff that are dedicated to each area of scope.
so in that regard for a SMB - the same can be had by using those external resources to cover those scopes.
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@dashrender said in Who do you call for IT assistance:
What? No doctor or lawyer has a complete scope - it's not practical or possible. That's why there are specialists in those fields.
Right, but law firms and hospitals do. Hence why IT people never should work alone, they need a group large enough to provide complete scope.... exactly as lawyers and doctors do.
