The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream
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@EddieJennings said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@scottalanmiller said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@EddieJennings said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@scottalanmiller said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@EddieJennings said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
Alas, but not surprising. I can imagine this lessens their development workload.
Don't think so. Seems like that wouldn't change.
One less product to maintain?
Which product is being removed? There is still a current release (Fedora), still the Stream release (that already exists today) and still the final LTS release (RHEL 8 / CentOS 8.) None really gets removed. CentOS 8 is a trivial copy of RHEL 8, not a product on its own. So there's no piece of their system being removed. Just IBM taking a stand that LTS releases don't make sense outside of staunchy politically driven situations... with which I agree.
At the end of 2021 the LTS release will be gone; thus, a product is removed. As far as it being a trivial copy of RHEL 8, CentOS's public stance seems to be different.
It kind of is and it kind of isn't.
CentOS Linux is built from publicly available source code provided by Red Hat
, Inc for Red Hat Enterprise Linux in a completely different (CentOS Project maintained) build system.It's built from RHEL sources but it's not a clone because they do some modifications to move RHEL specific tooling and trademarks.
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@coliver said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
It's built from RHEL sources but it's not a clone
Correct. And it is not trivial.
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@JaredBusch said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@coliver said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
It's built from RHEL sources but it's not a clone
Correct. And it is not trivial.
Nope.
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@EddieJennings said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@scottalanmiller said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@EddieJennings said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@scottalanmiller said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@EddieJennings said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
Alas, but not surprising. I can imagine this lessens their development workload.
Don't think so. Seems like that wouldn't change.
One less product to maintain?
Which product is being removed? There is still a current release (Fedora), still the Stream release (that already exists today) and still the final LTS release (RHEL 8 / CentOS 8.) None really gets removed. CentOS 8 is a trivial copy of RHEL 8, not a product on its own. So there's no piece of their system being removed. Just IBM taking a stand that LTS releases don't make sense outside of staunchy politically driven situations... with which I agree.
At the end of 2021 the LTS release will be gone; thus, a product is removed. As far as it being a trivial copy of RHEL 8, CentOS's public stance seems to be different.
Not according to teh link that you sent. It says that the only things different are the logos/trademarks and build system. It's exactly what I said.
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@coliver said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
It's built from RHEL sources but it's not a clone because they do some modifications to move RHEL specific tooling and trademarks.
That's a silly point, obviously they change the name. That shouldn't have to be mentioned. That's what a clone is.
If you clone a sheep, you still give the new sheep a different name. That doesn't stop it being a clone.
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@coliver said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@JaredBusch said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@coliver said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
It's built from RHEL sources but it's not a clone
Correct. And it is not trivial.
Nope.
More than one project did this previously. It was (and is) trivial enough that it's not considered a sticking point to redo it.
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@JaredBusch said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@coliver said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
It's built from RHEL sources but it's not a clone
Correct. And it is not trivial.
ZDNet says it's a clone: https://www.zdnet.com/article/red-hat-incorporates-free-red-hat-clone-centos/
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@EddieJennings said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@scottalanmiller said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@EddieJennings said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@scottalanmiller said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@EddieJennings said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
Alas, but not surprising. I can imagine this lessens their development workload.
Don't think so. Seems like that wouldn't change.
One less product to maintain?
Which product is being removed? There is still a current release (Fedora), still the Stream release (that already exists today) and still the final LTS release (RHEL 8 / CentOS 8.) None really gets removed. CentOS 8 is a trivial copy of RHEL 8, not a product on its own. So there's no piece of their system being removed. Just IBM taking a stand that LTS releases don't make sense outside of staunchy politically driven situations... with which I agree.
At the end of 2021 the LTS release will be gone; thus, a product is removed. As far as it being a trivial copy of RHEL 8, CentOS's public stance seems to be different.
Nothing removed. Here's a diagram showing the change from ITFoss Magazine.
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Of course, CentOS isn't the only remaining RHEL clone. Oracle is still out there (and clones faster), so really, anyone using CentOS today can just switch to Oracle Linux (also free) and voila, problem solved. Why IBM would risk sending people to Oracle I have no idea, it seems insane to me. Unless, and IBM is definitely the kind of company that might do this, they plan to just make RHEL itself free and cut out both CentOS and Oracle Linux that way. Having RHEL not be free has significantly undermined Red Hat's place in the ecosystem thus far.
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I saw the same graphic from itsfoss. Red Hat seems to draw a distinction between the two products. Regardless, CentOS Stream is the future for the project.
I can see why folks commenting on the CentOS blog post are up in arms as it's an emotional reaction to a perceived loss.
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@JaredBusch said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@coliver said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
It's built from RHEL sources but it's not a clone
Correct. And it is not trivial.
Its def not trivial.
https://wiki.centos.org/About/Building_8
That's why when there is a new major RHEL release it takes months to get the CentOS release.
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@stacksofplates said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@JaredBusch said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@coliver said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
It's built from RHEL sources but it's not a clone
Correct. And it is not trivial.
Its def not trivial.
https://wiki.centos.org/About/Building_8
That's why when there is a new major RHEL release it takes months to get the CentOS release.
Oracle gets it in fast. A lot of that delay is intentional.
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https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/red-hat-resets-centos-linux-and-users-are-angry/
CentOS claims it's the more stable over RHEL.
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@scottalanmiller said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
https://www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/red-hat-resets-centos-linux-and-users-are-angry/
CentOS claims it's the more stable over RHEL.
I couldn't find that claim anywhere in the article.
But they said "It provides a platform for rapid innovation at the community level but with a stable enough base to understand production dynamics."
To me that means that CentOS will be something like the stable version of Fedora or the RHEL beta. Who cares really. Redhat can do whatever they think makes the most sense financially - in the long or short term.
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@scottalanmiller said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@stacksofplates said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@JaredBusch said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@coliver said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
It's built from RHEL sources but it's not a clone
Correct. And it is not trivial.
Its def not trivial.
https://wiki.centos.org/About/Building_8
That's why when there is a new major RHEL release it takes months to get the CentOS release.
Oracle gets it in fast. A lot of that delay is intentional.
You have a different definition of fast than I do. Oracle, a 40 billion dollar company who actually makes money off of the release took over 2 months to release 8.
CentOS who is a small subset of Red Hat who makes no money off of CentOS took 4 months.
No matter how you look at it, it's not trivial.
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Rocky Linux is a community enterprise operating system designed to be 100% bug-for-bug compatible with America's top enterprise Linux distribution now that its downstream partner has shifted direction. It is under intensive development by the community. Rocky Linux is led by Gregory Kurtzer, founder of the CentOS project. There is no ETA for a release. Contributors are asked to reach out using the communication options offered on this site.
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Interesting Development:
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@VoIP_n00b said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
Interesting Development:
See that should've been an initial statement from RHEL.
"We're ending the CentOS line, but are offering 16 production servers for free as a part of this change"
The way this was handled was still horribly performed and has likely killed the RHEL userbase off from trusting anything from RHEL/IBM.
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@DustinB3403 said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@VoIP_n00b said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
Interesting Development:
See that should've been an initial statement from RHEL.
"We're ending the CentOS line, but are offering 16 production servers for free as a part of this change"
The way this was handled was still horribly performed and has likely killed the RHEL userbase off from trusting anything from RHEL/IBM.
16 servers? What good is that though? Just use Oracle and you have no limit. No matter how you slice it IBM has ruined Red Hat as most people predicted.
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@stacksofplates said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@DustinB3403 said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
@VoIP_n00b said in The future of the CentOS Project is CentOS Stream:
Interesting Development:
See that should've been an initial statement from RHEL.
"We're ending the CentOS line, but are offering 16 production servers for free as a part of this change"
The way this was handled was still horribly performed and has likely killed the RHEL userbase off from trusting anything from RHEL/IBM.
16 servers? What good is that though? Just use Oracle and you have no limit. No matter how you slice it IBM has ruined Red Hat as most people predicted.
Well I understand your point, the offer of 16 servers isn't much. For many other organizations it may be plenty.
In either case the damage has been done by IBM/RHEL.
