Miscellaneous Tech News
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@warren-stanley said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
Fedora 33 & BTRFS default
Desktop only at this stage(?)
Interesting
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@warren-stanley said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
Fedora 33 & BTRFS default
Desktop only at this stage(?)
I haven't used BTRFS in a long time... My advise is run... as far and as fast as you can, lol.
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Yeah isn't btrfs a really old filesystem that no one really uses anymore or am I thinking of something else?
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@dafyre said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@warren-stanley said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
Fedora 33 & BTRFS default
Desktop only at this stage(?)
I haven't used BTRFS in a long time... My advise is run... as far and as fast as you can, lol.
Well that clearly is not at all accurate if Fedora is working to push it as the default.
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@jmoore said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
Yeah isn't btrfs a really old filesystem that no one really uses anymore or am I thinking of something else?
BTRFS has been around for a long time, yes
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Will have to do some reading to see what's changed in last few years. I admit I have not kept up with it.
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@dafyre said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@warren-stanley said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
Fedora 33 & BTRFS default
Desktop only at this stage(?)
I haven't used BTRFS in a long time... My advise is run... as far and as fast as you can, lol.
Why, I've had nothing but good luck with it.
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@jmoore said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
Yeah isn't btrfs a really old filesystem that no one really uses anymore or am I thinking of something else?
It's the most up to date and modern filesystem with any widespread use. Literally every filesystem you know is much older except for maybe ReFS.
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@DustinB3403 said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@jmoore said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
Yeah isn't btrfs a really old filesystem that no one really uses anymore or am I thinking of something else?
BTRFS has been around for a long time, yes
In total years, yes. Compared to any other filesystem, no. I think you guys are thinking of Reiser.
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@jmoore said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
Will have to do some reading to see what's changed in last few years. I admit I have not kept up with it.
BtrFS has been the "future" filesystem for Linux for years. But it's not been far enough along for most places to put into production yet. It's just getting to that point, now. That's why it is going to desktops, but not servers, at this point. This is the stage prior to it starting to replace XFS and EXT4 in production servers.
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@scottalanmiller said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@jmoore said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
Will have to do some reading to see what's changed in last few years. I admit I have not kept up with it.
BtrFS has been the "future" filesystem for Linux for years. But it's not been far enough along for most places to put into production yet. It's just getting to that point, now. That's why it is going to desktops, but not servers, at this point. This is the stage prior to it starting to replace XFS and EXT4 in production servers.
It's Facebook that have had problems with scaling xfs and invested a lot in btrfs.
As you said, Fedora users are just beta testers for real production use. Consider it production ready when it ends up in RHEL.I read this a couple of weeks ago. Has some more info: https://lwn.net/Articles/824855/
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@scottalanmiller said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@jmoore said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
Will have to do some reading to see what's changed in last few years. I admit I have not kept up with it.
BtrFS has been the "future" filesystem for Linux for years. But it's not been far enough along for most places to put into production yet. It's just getting to that point, now. That's why it is going to desktops, but not servers, at this point. This is the stage prior to it starting to replace XFS and EXT4 in production servers.
We had it in production here on several systems. We suffered no end of FS corruption, and snapshots that won't delete for various reasons...systems randomly hanging and going down... We've upgraded all of the systems to newer OSes and use EXT4.
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@dafyre said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@scottalanmiller said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@jmoore said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
Will have to do some reading to see what's changed in last few years. I admit I have not kept up with it.
BtrFS has been the "future" filesystem for Linux for years. But it's not been far enough along for most places to put into production yet. It's just getting to that point, now. That's why it is going to desktops, but not servers, at this point. This is the stage prior to it starting to replace XFS and EXT4 in production servers.
We had it in production here on several systems. We suffered no end of FS corruption, and snapshots that won't delete for various reasons...systems randomly hanging and going down... We've upgraded all of the systems to newer OSes and use EXT4.
Why EXT4 and not XFS? XFS is the mature, stable, fast one.
Why were you using BtrFS in production? It's not considered ready even now, let alone anytime in the past. It's hoped to be classified as production in 1-2 years.
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@Pete-S said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
As you said, Fedora users are just beta testers for real production use.
Fedora DESKTOP, not Fedora.
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@Pete-S said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
Consider it production ready when it ends up in RHEL.
No, that's when it's old. When it is in Fedora Server is when it's production.
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@scottalanmiller said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@dafyre said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@scottalanmiller said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@jmoore said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
Will have to do some reading to see what's changed in last few years. I admit I have not kept up with it.
BtrFS has been the "future" filesystem for Linux for years. But it's not been far enough along for most places to put into production yet. It's just getting to that point, now. That's why it is going to desktops, but not servers, at this point. This is the stage prior to it starting to replace XFS and EXT4 in production servers.
We had it in production here on several systems. We suffered no end of FS corruption, and snapshots that won't delete for various reasons...systems randomly hanging and going down... We've upgraded all of the systems to newer OSes and use EXT4.
Why EXT4 and not XFS? XFS is the mature, stable, fast one.
Why were you using BtrFS in production? It's not considered ready even now, let alone anytime in the past. It's hoped to be classified as production in 1-2 years.
For the same reason that Fedora is trying to push it now... The vendor (SuSE, for us) thought it was a good idea to push as a sensible default at the time.
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@dafyre said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@scottalanmiller said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@dafyre said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@scottalanmiller said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@jmoore said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
Will have to do some reading to see what's changed in last few years. I admit I have not kept up with it.
BtrFS has been the "future" filesystem for Linux for years. But it's not been far enough along for most places to put into production yet. It's just getting to that point, now. That's why it is going to desktops, but not servers, at this point. This is the stage prior to it starting to replace XFS and EXT4 in production servers.
We had it in production here on several systems. We suffered no end of FS corruption, and snapshots that won't delete for various reasons...systems randomly hanging and going down... We've upgraded all of the systems to newer OSes and use EXT4.
Why EXT4 and not XFS? XFS is the mature, stable, fast one.
Why were you using BtrFS in production? It's not considered ready even now, let alone anytime in the past. It's hoped to be classified as production in 1-2 years.
For the same reason that Fedora is trying to push it now... The vendor (SuSE, for us) thought it was a good idea to push as a sensible default at the time.
Fedora isn't pushing now, that's for desktops. Where those things don't really matter. And BtrFS has been pretty stable for a while now. No idea what Suse was up to, but blindly taking defaults is never a good idea. That's how people got RAID 5 from Dell for years. Another example of a commonly bad default... EXT4. In that case, it's stable, it's just not as stable or as fast.
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@scottalanmiller Agreed - I am looking forward to trying this on the Desktop side of things. Having the Fedora guys behind it should help with its implementation.
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@scottalanmiller said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@dafyre said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@scottalanmiller said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@dafyre said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@scottalanmiller said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@jmoore said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
Will have to do some reading to see what's changed in last few years. I admit I have not kept up with it.
BtrFS has been the "future" filesystem for Linux for years. But it's not been far enough along for most places to put into production yet. It's just getting to that point, now. That's why it is going to desktops, but not servers, at this point. This is the stage prior to it starting to replace XFS and EXT4 in production servers.
We had it in production here on several systems. We suffered no end of FS corruption, and snapshots that won't delete for various reasons...systems randomly hanging and going down... We've upgraded all of the systems to newer OSes and use EXT4.
Why EXT4 and not XFS? XFS is the mature, stable, fast one.
Why were you using BtrFS in production? It's not considered ready even now, let alone anytime in the past. It's hoped to be classified as production in 1-2 years.
For the same reason that Fedora is trying to push it now... The vendor (SuSE, for us) thought it was a good idea to push as a sensible default at the time.
Fedora isn't pushing now, that's for desktops. Where those things don't really matter. And BtrFS has been pretty stable for a while now. No idea what Suse was up to, but blindly taking defaults is never a good idea. That's how people got RAID 5 from Dell for years. Another example of a commonly bad default... EXT4. In that case, it's stable, it's just not as stable or as fast.
Hmm... I'd like to think that things on desktops do matter, lol. Kinda hard to use Linux to watch videos or play games if my FS is corrupted and not working.
I do hope it is stable for those who do use it, at least.
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@Pete-S said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@scottalanmiller said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
@jmoore said in Miscellaneous Tech News:
Will have to do some reading to see what's changed in last few years. I admit I have not kept up with it.
BtrFS has been the "future" filesystem for Linux for years. But it's not been far enough along for most places to put into production yet. It's just getting to that point, now. That's why it is going to desktops, but not servers, at this point. This is the stage prior to it starting to replace XFS and EXT4 in production servers.
It's Facebook that have had problems with scaling xfs and invested a lot in btrfs.
As you said, Fedora users are just beta testers for real production use. Consider it production ready when it ends up in RHEL.I read this a couple of weeks ago. Has some more info: https://lwn.net/Articles/824855/
OpenSuse uses Btrfs by default.
