Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...
-
Yep, that what I meant. Sorry I wasn't very clear in my response. That site makes it easier to fake an image of a conversation.
So to your earlier point, the best bet is to see if the accuser will share a physical look at their phone for verification to remove at least the chance that it is from image manipulation.
-
@BraswellJay said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
Yep, that what I meant. Sorry I wasn't very clear in my response. That site makes it easier to fake an image of a conversation.
So to your earlier point, the best bet is to see if the accuser will share a physical look at their phone for verification to remove at least the chance that it is from image manipulation.
Yeah, faking the message app on the phone itself, while obviously possible, it HARD and unlikely to have been something that someone prepared for a "he said, she said" kind of complaint.
-
@BraswellJay said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
Our HR director came to me this morning and told me that an employee shared a text with him wherein a different employee made some inappropriate comments. From what I have been told the evidence, which I was not shown, is a picture of a text thread from the accusers phone that shows part of the conversation, including the name / phone number of the alleged perpetrator at the top.
Our HR believes the content to be credible but had asked me if there was any way to verify. I told our HR that with the only evidence being a picture that there was no way to verify with 100% certainty that the text thread was real. That the picture could have been photo shopped or otherwise edited. I should mention that neither of the phones involved are company owned so I have no way that I know of to access records from the cell provider.
Is it possible that I am missing some avenue that could be explored to make this verification? I really don't see how it could be done without the assistance of the cell provider and with the phones not belonging to the company I doubt I would be able to get any information from a carrier.
No
-
You really can't dig any further than you have already. It is HR's choice to give discipline how they see fit, but this cannot be considered proof in anyway. If there was communications, both parties have means to end/block those communications going forward.
-
Is is a straight SMS? not an iMessage etc.. Most carriers log these and the accuser could request a log for them in offical form however, they usually have to be within the last 30 days. I'm not sure if they provide these to consumer accounts, We can get them through both Verizon and AT&T for bussiness provided phones (and it's in the Use policy of accepting employer paid phones that we can)
-
@thecreaitvone91 said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
Is is a straight SMS? not an iMessage etc.. Most carriers log these and the accuser could request a log for them in offical form however, they usually have to be within the last 30 days. I'm not sure if they provide these to consumer accounts, We can get them through both Verizon and AT&T for bussiness provided phones (and it's in the Use policy of accepting employer paid phones that we can)
It is SMS I believe. The accuser has an iPhone but the alleged perpetrator appears to have had an android so I think that means it was SMS although I may be wrong on that.
I did suggest to HR what @scottalanmiller mentioned; to ask to see the actual phone and not just pictures of the conversation. My understanding is that the accuser did subsequently allow HR to access their phone and it was verified that the screen shots were legitimate from the text messaging app on the phone. That may not be 100% proof but it seems likely that it was not faked.
The matter is in HR's hands now and I am not involved anymore.
-
@BraswellJay said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
@thecreaitvone91 said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
Is is a straight SMS? not an iMessage etc.. Most carriers log these and the accuser could request a log for them in offical form however, they usually have to be within the last 30 days. I'm not sure if they provide these to consumer accounts, We can get them through both Verizon and AT&T for bussiness provided phones (and it's in the Use policy of accepting employer paid phones that we can)
It is SMS I believe. The accuser has an iPhone but the alleged perpetrator appears to have had an android so I think that means it was SMS although I may be wrong on that.
I did suggest to HR what @scottalanmiller mentioned; to ask to see the actual phone and not just pictures of the conversation. My understanding is that the accuser did subsequently allow HR to access their phone and it was verified that the screen shots were legitimate from the text messaging app on the phone. That may not be 100% proof but it seems likely that it was not faked.
The matter is in HR's hands now and I am not involved anymore.
The complaining party could potentially contact their carrier to get incoming text records and who they are from, and also provide that. Everything together would be solid proof.
-
@Obsolesce said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
@BraswellJay said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
@thecreaitvone91 said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
Is is a straight SMS? not an iMessage etc.. Most carriers log these and the accuser could request a log for them in offical form however, they usually have to be within the last 30 days. I'm not sure if they provide these to consumer accounts, We can get them through both Verizon and AT&T for bussiness provided phones (and it's in the Use policy of accepting employer paid phones that we can)
It is SMS I believe. The accuser has an iPhone but the alleged perpetrator appears to have had an android so I think that means it was SMS although I may be wrong on that.
I did suggest to HR what @scottalanmiller mentioned; to ask to see the actual phone and not just pictures of the conversation. My understanding is that the accuser did subsequently allow HR to access their phone and it was verified that the screen shots were legitimate from the text messaging app on the phone. That may not be 100% proof but it seems likely that it was not faked.
The matter is in HR's hands now and I am not involved anymore.
The complaining party could potentially contact their carrier to get incoming text records and who they are from, and also provide that. Everything together would be solid proof.
It's highly suggestive, but text messages are easy to fake. My old job could send or receive any text from anyone in the building if they wanted to. Which included the entire management staff of GE. Thousands of people, and that's just one example. It's like email, you'll likely not have a suspect who knows that they can fight it as unreliable evidence - because 99.9999% chance they actually sent it. So you only need to get them to break down. But it's actually pretty easy to completely fake text messaging. Far easier than email, actually, because you can have real time send and receive access which, with email, you cannot.
-
How do you prove that the person in question sent the messages? They came from their phone, sure... But proving they sent them is another matter all together.
-
@VoIP_n00b said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
How do you prove that the person in question sent the messages? They came from their phone, sure... But proving they sent them is another matter all together.
That's the trick, you can't even prove that it came from the cell phone! We had the ability to send as people whose phones were on our network, no need to get to the phone itself. They have man in the middle devices that companies and law enforcement use that aren't that hard to anyone to get.
Is that extreme? Yes, but it's very possible, no matter how unlikely, for the message to not have originated from the phone.
-
Now in an HR situation, NO ONE is doing that stuff. Just saying.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
Now in an HR situation, NO ONE is doing that stuff. Just saying.
LOL, of course not...
-
Yeah this is honestly either block the number or contact law enforcement. It's not an HR thing, tbh. You cannot get any valid proof.
-
@IRJ said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
Yeah this is honestly either block the number or contact law enforcement. It's not an HR thing, tbh. You cannot get any valid proof.
Company policy could easily make it an HR thing that could cost the other person their job.
-
@JaredBusch said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
@IRJ said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
Yeah this is honestly either block the number or contact law enforcement. It's not an HR thing, tbh. You cannot get any valid proof.
Company policy could easily make it an HR thing that could cost the other person their job.
Without valid proof?
-
-
@IRJ said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
@JaredBusch said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
@IRJ said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
Yeah this is honestly either block the number or contact law enforcement. It's not an HR thing, tbh. You cannot get any valid proof.
Company policy could easily make it an HR thing that could cost the other person their job.
Without valid proof?
Proof has nothing to do with if it is an HR thing or not. It is an HR thing if company policy has something about employee behavior between each other that is potentially being violated.
If so, then it is HR's job to deal with things like proof and facts. While doing so, HR can also determine to send it to the authorities even if the recipient does not. Or just keep it as an internal action such as discipline up to termination.
-
unfortunately texts like this even off the clock and outside of work to co-workers has been seen as workplace violence by the courts and they have held employers liable for damages for allowing a hostile workplace in the past
-
@JaredBusch said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
@IRJ said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
@JaredBusch said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
@IRJ said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
Yeah this is honestly either block the number or contact law enforcement. It's not an HR thing, tbh. You cannot get any valid proof.
Company policy could easily make it an HR thing that could cost the other person their job.
Without valid proof?
Proof has nothing to do with if it is an HR thing or not. It is an HR thing if company policy has something about employee behavior between each other that is potentially being violated.
If so, then it is HR's job to deal with things like proof and facts. While doing so, HR can also determine to send it to the authorities even if the recipient does not. Or just keep it as an internal action such as discipline up to termination.
So I create a fake text and get someone else terminated?
Cell companies arent going to turn over texts to HR departments. They would have to get law enforcement involved. So there is basically no way to verify if it is real without getting law enforcement involved.
-
@IRJ said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
@JaredBusch said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
@IRJ said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
@JaredBusch said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
@IRJ said in Verify authenticity of a text thread from a screenshot ...:
Yeah this is honestly either block the number or contact law enforcement. It's not an HR thing, tbh. You cannot get any valid proof.
Company policy could easily make it an HR thing that could cost the other person their job.
Without valid proof?
Proof has nothing to do with if it is an HR thing or not. It is an HR thing if company policy has something about employee behavior between each other that is potentially being violated.
If so, then it is HR's job to deal with things like proof and facts. While doing so, HR can also determine to send it to the authorities even if the recipient does not. Or just keep it as an internal action such as discipline up to termination.
So I create a fake text and get someone else terminated?
Cell companies arent going to turn over texts to HR departments. They would have to get law enforcement involved. So there is basically no way to verify if it is real without getting law enforcement involved.
I think from most cases I've heard the HR involvement usually is mostly a CYA, Document what happened put it on record, give them a slap on the wrist or a warning kind of thing.
