Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be
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@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
I'd honestly just retract the 6 month leave notice and leave today. I know many people can't live without a paycheck for more than 2 weeks but I can get by.
Sounds like there was no notice, so he just needs to find a job, give his notice and GTFO.
So his new job responsibilities if he wants a paycheck now fall under "job duties as assigned" by his manager.
So get cracking @guyinpv you've got a lot of documentation to rewrite.
Yes, but they also lowered his pay, so he can walk away and simply not accept the new rate. That's the problem with forced changes, the employee HAS to accept them. If they don't, then they can just leave without notice because the company, not the employee, severed the relationship. It's a form of firing. All obligations of the employee are gone until they accept the new arrangement.
The issue is he is now forced to accept the new terms or go without money, presumably.
Since we are all still assuming he simply said "I'm looking for a new job I could leave in 3 days or I could leave in 10 years".
Granted his employer can't just go and reduce his pay at will, but he is feeling forced to accept the pay. Rather than going through with just walking.
If the "pay reduction" is in writing I'd walk. They've fired you and are wanting you to work for peanuts.
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@Curtis said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
hahahah . . . can we work to get Curtis hired for this company?!
Please please send his resume to them!
No thanks.
Not you Curtis (it's why I didn't page) but SpiceWorks crazy Curtis.
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@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
The issue is he is now forced to accept the new terms or go without money, presumably.
Correct, it is like being fired. Which is the best when you are giving notice as they can never claim anything bad about you, you don't have to go through the notice period, and you can start the new job immediately.
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@Curtis said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
hahahah . . . can we work to get Curtis hired for this company?!
Please please send his resume to them!
No thanks.
HAHAHA, there is a famous Curtis who uses a different name here. That's who he meant. The Curtis of this thread...
https://mangolassi.it/topic/10680/programming-printers/
and this one...
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@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Granted his employer can't just go and reduce his pay at will, but he is feeling forced to accept the pay. Rather than going through with just walking.
They can in most states. They MUST tell you ahead of time. And it is obviously a new employment agreement. And you have the right to accept or not. But both parties are allowed to trigger that at any time.
You are free to go into the boss' office and say that going forward you need 50% more money. They can accept or let you quit. But you can't claim that you were fired, you refused to work under the existing agreement, that's quitting. In this case, they are refusing to let him work under the existing agreement, that's firing.
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Also since it hasn't been posted yet.
https://i.stack.imgur.com/pB43k.jpg
https://i.stack.imgur.com/jiFfM.jpg -
@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@DustinB3403 said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Granted his employer can't just go and reduce his pay at will, but he is feeling forced to accept the pay. Rather than going through with just walking.
They can in most states. They MUST tell you ahead of time. And it is obviously a new employment agreement. And you have the right to accept or not. But both parties are allowed to trigger that at any time.
You are free to go into the boss' office and say that going forward you need 50% more money. They can accept or let you quit. But you can't claim that you were fired, you refused to work under the existing agreement, that's quitting. In this case, they are refusing to let him work under the existing agreement, that's firing.
That goes into the "they can't just adjust my pay". It's a new contract. It's why raises and decreases are always in writing and require both parties to sign on the dotted line.
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@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
What should really be expected of the IT person when they leave? I've heard everything from "hand over the passwords and walk" to "as a cornerstone employee it's your duty to not leave the company vulnerable at all."
Just walk is the ONLY answer. Anyone saying otherwise is out to scam you.
It is the job of your boss to ensure that you can walk at any time without seriously impacting the company. If your BOSS hasn't done that, ALL responsibility for problems is on them, not you (unless you intentionally did something secret to screw them, which is not the case here.)
There is a lot of good motivation in here, thanks to everybody.
I understand this point, but I think it's somewhat slippery slope because in a certain way, they don't know what they don't know, hence the odd "secret IT knowledge" remarks. They are kind of relying on me to make sure they know what has to be known for the company to continue operating. Freaking out that some secret SSL will expire that they don't know about, or some secret fee that is manually paid will go unpaid.
When I'm given tasks to do, I use whatever tools I need to get it done. Could be some free app or a little script I write, or a web service with a free account, etc etc. They aren't really aware of these side tools. Obviously I have the passwords stored, but that's about it.
So what they are panicky about is how all these tools inter-relate and what tool is needed to get what sort of task accomplished.
Let me given an example. I had my own free LastPass account when I first arrived. It was a step up from the previous person who basically just gave me a PDF created from MS Word with some passwords in it.
Eventually I started saving passwords into KeyPass with the file saved in an IT folder in the cloud.
The boss doesn't have my LP account pass, nor even the KeyPass master password, because they never asked for it or seemed to care. And I simply didn't offer it out. Nothing in there is stuff they access at all, at least not until I leave.So I think it's completely reasonable that I can't, or shouldn't, walk out of here with passwords still in my personal LP account, or if they don't know the pass to the KeyPass file.
That's just one example. They need to know my pin to the spare laptop I use sometimes which I just now thought of, since we rarely use the thing. My workstation has a different user/pass than others.
There is just a ton of "stuff" I need to hand over, but what she is most worried about is having no idea how it all relates and what it means and how important it is and how it works and how to use it, etc. Which I know, isn't my problem. I just feel a kind of obligation to at least make the data somewhat easy to search, and somewhat organized. It's organized according to how my brain wanted it organized, certainly not hers.
There are tons of source files like Photoshops and Illustrator and InDesign and Adobe and source video files and graphics and audio and scripts and databases and various kind of tools all used for various kinds of information. It all makes sense in MY head, I know where to look for stuff.
When we dropped a particular service some years ago, I pulled a data dump from the service, which they provided as XML. Well I know how to search through a bunch of XML files for something, but they don't. They've always wanted an "easy" way to search through the old data, which I was going to build into a relational DB on the intranet or whatever. Hasn't happened yet, so they also worried how to access this old data dump, you know, because it's "secret IT knowledge" how to do stuff like that.This is such a pain! I didn't actually turn in a notice or set a last day, which I'm regretting now. But I'm a non-confrontational person. I just want them to be happy and I want to personally feel like I've done a professional job leaving documentation behind. I'm just trying to figure out a balance.
The whole "they can't make me teach people" because I'm not a professor and it's not in my job description. That was funny, because nobody who has ever worked here has been able to use the "not my job description" line on them. They would say the job description is whatever they say it is, since they are the boss and you work for them!
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@guyinpv if they plan on hiring a replacement, even if its an MSP, then the next IT person/company will know how to translate all that "secret" info. If not, then they screwed the pooch and don't really deserve to be in business.
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@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
What should really be expected of the IT person when they leave? I've heard everything from "hand over the passwords and walk" to "as a cornerstone employee it's your duty to not leave the company vulnerable at all."
Just walk is the ONLY answer. Anyone saying otherwise is out to scam you.
It is the job of your boss to ensure that you can walk at any time without seriously impacting the company. If your BOSS hasn't done that, ALL responsibility for problems is on them, not you (unless you intentionally did something secret to screw them, which is not the case here.)
There is a lot of good motivation in here, thanks to everybody.
I understand this point, but I think it's somewhat slippery slope because in a certain way, they don't know what they don't know, hence the odd "secret IT knowledge" remarks. They are kind of relying on me to make sure they know what has to be known for the company to continue operating. Freaking out that some secret SSL will expire that they don't know about, or some secret fee that is manually paid will go unpaid.
When I'm given tasks to do, I use whatever tools I need to get it done. Could be some free app or a little script I write, or a web service with a free account, etc etc. They aren't really aware of these side tools. Obviously I have the passwords stored, but that's about it.
So what they are panicky about is how all these tools inter-relate and what tool is needed to get what sort of task accomplished.
None of that matters - you could drop dead tomorrow or get hit by a bus. If they don't care enough to know this stuff before now, then they don't really care about it.
I have a similar feeling as you - I want the thing to run right, etc. But something that Scott has drilled into me over and over again is - IT serves the business, not the other way around. This means if they don't care, you can't decide they should. No amount of caring on your part is going to make them do the right thing. You have to move yourself to a point where you care only about what they care about, and nothing else, - or leave.
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@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
I understand this point, but I think it's somewhat slippery slope because in a certain way, they don't know what they don't know, hence the odd "secret IT knowledge" remarks. They are kind of relying on me to make sure they know what has to be known for the company to continue operating.
But it is THEIR job to know, from day one until the end. It was their job to know this before you were hired, to relay it to you, to keep up, and be ready at any moment, all this time, for you to leave without notice (just in case.)
Of course, no one knows what they don't know. But it has been their job for eight years to find out what they don't know and be prepared. This was not your job then, and isn't now.
They aren't actually freaking out about this stuff, because what they are asking for isn't related to this, and their unwillingness to either learn IT or put in the time to read the docs proves this.
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@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Question - did you give two weeks? or did you simply inform them you are looking for other employment and will be leaving when you find it?
It's complicated, as I've been working fewer and fewer hours over time, but now it's come to a tipping point, I'm ready to leave.
I simply brought this point up, that I can't get everything done if I take more time off, but I also need more time on my own business. So I wanted to open the conversation about reducing my time and eventually getting out.
No real time frames were given. I just said I'd work with my replacement, and answer some emails and questions should the new person need help.
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@RojoLoco said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@guyinpv if they plan on hiring a replacement, even if its an MSP, then the next IT person/company will know how to translate all that "secret" info. If not, then they screwed the pooch and don't really deserve to be in business.
Exactly. Anyone capable of doing the work needs the "secret jargon", not the condescending "for little kids" version.
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@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
No real time frames were given. I just said I'd work with my replacement, and answer some emails and questions should the new person need help.
And if there is no replacement planned, then you are just... done now?
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@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Question - did you give two weeks? or did you simply inform them you are looking for other employment and will be leaving when you find it?
He gave six months!
I didn't give any time.
And I didn't tell them I'm looking for other employment. I run my own business, they know that. They know my business is picking up. In fact you might say they knew this day would come eventually.
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@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
When I'm given tasks to do, I use whatever tools I need to get it done. Could be some free app or a little script I write, or a web service with a free account, etc etc. They aren't really aware of these side tools. Obviously I have the passwords stored, but that's about it.
Do they need to be? You had to figure it out, so do they. If you document how you did something, great. If not, no problem. It's their job and only their job to repace you or learn everything necessary to work without you. Period.
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@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@scottalanmiller said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
@Dashrender said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
Question - did you give two weeks? or did you simply inform them you are looking for other employment and will be leaving when you find it?
He gave six months!
I didn't give any time.
And I didn't tell them I'm looking for other employment. I run my own business, they know that. They know my business is picking up. In fact you might say they knew this day would come eventually.
They aren't acting like it. They are acting like they were convinced you'd never die, get sick, retire, or quit.
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@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
The whole "they can't make me teach people" because I'm not a professor and it's not in my job description. That was funny, because nobody who has ever worked here has been able to use the "not my job description" line on them. They would say the job description is whatever they say it is, since they are the boss and you work for them!
Last line in every job description here - additional duties as assigned. - aka we can make you do anything we want that's legal. And frankly - why not? Sure, you may not like it, but then quit and get another job.
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@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
So what they are panicky about is how all these tools inter-relate and what tool is needed to get what sort of task accomplished.
That's just saying that they don't know how to do your job. Well duh. They don't want to do it. That's why they need to hire someone, like every other company on the planet does.
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@guyinpv said in Finally leaving my job, and it's just as annoying as I thought it would be:
I started saving passwords into KeyPass with the file saved in an IT folder in the cloud.
The boss doesn't have my LP account pass, nor even the KeyPass master password, because they never asked for it or seemed to care. And I simply didn't offer it out. Nothing in there is stuff they access at all, at least not until I leave.
So I think it's completely reasonable that I can't, or shouldn't, walk out of here with passwords still in my personal LP account, or if they don't know the pass to the KeyPass file.
That's just one example.You need to turn over relevant passwords, yes. Or just print out the KeePass data and hand it over. No one is saying you shouldn't turn over basic documentation. Of course you do. But that's not related to training, teaching, showing how to do things. That's totally different.
When you sell someone a house, you turn over the door key. You don't teach them how to do standard roof repair.
