With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse
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@scottalanmiller said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@Dashrender said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
licensee can pay per hour for support if needed.
Looks like I was concerned for a day or two over nothing.
Of course you can pay. That's what Essentials gets you, the right to buy stuff.
I was concerned (only because someone else asked the question - because originally I assumed it to be) if the licenses were perpetual - now that I know they are - I'm no longer worried.
Of course I could still pay, that was never in question.
But now I know - If I stop paying I can still completely and legally continue to use the product. I just don't get updates or upgrades. -
@Dashrender said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
I just don't get updates or upgrades.
But that is the thing you should be concerned the most about.
Imagine if when you bought Windows Server X, it only came with updates for a year. You could use it forever, but if you refused to pay for that maintenance agreement you'd be stuck on the version you have.
Imagine how many security flaws you'd have and bugs too.
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@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@scottalanmiller said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
Not true in even the slightest. It does allow you to upgrade. No mention in this thread (as far as I have seen, might have missed it) you understood that you would paying up at EOL without support contract.
What do you mean? Right now, no version of Hyper-V has ever not been free or is hinted to ever not be free. Could it stop being free? Sure, in theory. but a decade of Hyper-V and they've stuck to their "always free" plan.
At the time of the discussion (which is all worked out now), is that Hyper-V (pick a version) will run till EOL. My point, at the time, was that Hyper-V 2012R2 will NOT have security updates forever and will then need to be upgraded in order to have further security updates. If you want more security updates for 2012R2 after EOL, you can pay MS for that privilege.
That is all I was stating, nothing more.
I see. I think a key difference though is this, let's see if I can state it clearly...
Hyper-V doesn't have a "pay per version". So Hyper-V 2016 is the update path for Hyper-V 2012 R2. If you start on Hyper-V 2008, you get updates all the way to Hyper-V 2019 and beyond. All free. All forever (where forever means indefinite, there is no guarantee.) So if you refuse to update (for free) but require patches sure, you can pay for that insanity. But why, since your updates are already free.
VMware ESXi requires you to pay for updates. Both updates that we see as patches, as well as updates from version to version. So your updates stop when your license expires, and you can't upgrade. If you stayed on ESXi and didn't upgrade, but wanted bug fixes for an older release, you'd have to pay extra on top of the upgrade path you've already paid for.
So let's eliminate the reasonably "never used" "pay to not upgrade but still be patched" mode as it doesn't apply in the real world to either product (or to any others.) In real world updates, Hyper-V gives you updates indefinitely, VMware only till the end of your paid window. Totally different. The kinds of updates you pay for from ESXi in the normal maintenance package, are free "forever" with Hyper-V.
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@scottalanmiller said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@scottalanmiller said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
Not true in even the slightest. It does allow you to upgrade. No mention in this thread (as far as I have seen, might have missed it) you understood that you would paying up at EOL without support contract.
What do you mean? Right now, no version of Hyper-V has ever not been free or is hinted to ever not be free. Could it stop being free? Sure, in theory. but a decade of Hyper-V and they've stuck to their "always free" plan.
At the time of the discussion (which is all worked out now), is that Hyper-V (pick a version) will run till EOL. My point, at the time, was that Hyper-V 2012R2 will NOT have security updates forever and will then need to be upgraded in order to have further security updates. If you want more security updates for 2012R2 after EOL, you can pay MS for that privilege.
That is all I was stating, nothing more.
I see. I think a key difference though is this, let's see if I can state it clearly...
Hyper-V doesn't have a "pay per version". So Hyper-V 2016 is the update path for Hyper-V 2012 R2. If you start on Hyper-V 2008, you get updates all the way to Hyper-V 2019 and beyond. All free. All forever (where forever means indefinite, there is no guarantee.) So if you refuse to update (for free) but require patches sure, you can pay for that insanity. But why, since your updates are already free.
VMware ESXi requires you to pay for updates. Both updates that we see as patches, as well as updates from version to version. So your updates stop when your license expires, and you can't upgrade. If you stayed on ESXi and didn't upgrade, but wanted bug fixes for an older release, you'd have to pay extra on top of the upgrade path you've already paid for.
So let's eliminate the reasonably "never used" "pay to not upgrade but still be patched" mode as it doesn't apply in the real world to either product (or to any others.) In real world updates, Hyper-V gives you updates indefinitely, VMware only till the end of your paid window. Totally different. The kinds of updates you pay for from ESXi in the normal maintenance package, are free "forever" with Hyper-V (and every other hypervisor).
FTFY
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@Dashrender said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@scottalanmiller said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@Dashrender said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@pmoncho said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
licensee can pay per hour for support if needed.
Looks like I was concerned for a day or two over nothing.
Of course you can pay. That's what Essentials gets you, the right to buy stuff.
I was concerned (only because someone else asked the question - because originally I assumed it to be) if the licenses were perpetual - now that I know they are - I'm no longer worried.
Of course I could still pay, that was never in question.
But now I know - If I stop paying I can still completely and legally continue to use the product. I just don't get updates or upgrades.You can continue to use the product without security patches. To normal IT folks, that's the same as "can't use the product."
HIPAA considers that a dead product, for example. Can't use that in a HIPAA environment, or a PCI one, or any that has customer data as there are legal requirements even without things like HIPAA, in the US. The latter gets more murky, but falls squarely under professional requirements.
Being out of support is actually about the biggest concern you can have with a product like this. Sure, being unlicensed is bad, but might be the lesser of the two problems to face.
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@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@Dashrender said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
I just don't get updates or upgrades.
But that is the thing you should be concerned the most about.
Imagine if when you bought Windows Server X, it only came with updates for a year. You could use it forever, but if you refused to pay for that maintenance agreement you'd be stuck on the version you have.
Imagine how many security flaws you'd have and bugs too.
I get all that - but that was NOT my concern when I posted my concern near the top of the thread. The fact that I don't get updates was completely expected and understood - but not relevant at the moment. Only if the license itself was legal to continue using was - the perpetual part.
IF you want to talk about the rest - start another thread. - oh wait - the title is what happens if you let it lapse - well now we know.
A) nothing happens to your current installs
b) you don't get future updates -
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@Dashrender said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
I just don't get updates or upgrades.
But that is the thing you should be concerned the most about.
Imagine if when you bought Windows Server X, it only came with updates for a year. You could use it forever, but if you refused to pay for that maintenance agreement you'd be stuck on the version you have.
Imagine how many security flaws you'd have and bugs too.
And then imagine the liability your company would have if anything were to happen. Getting hacked and data stolen wouldn't fall under "accident" or "these things happen", it would fall almost certainly under "reckless endangerment and disregard for ethical responsibilities to protect customer data."
Of course, if the company demands the situation and acknowledges that they are forcing you to do this, the liability is theirs, not yours. So not your problem if they face civil damages charges and other violations. But if they didn't and only pressured you to do it, they've set you up for that liability personally.
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@Dashrender said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
A) nothing happens to your current installs
b) you don't get future updatesc) you no longer have the right to pay for support.
d) you can't re-apply current patches in a re-install -
@scottalanmiller said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@Dashrender said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
A) nothing happens to your current installs
b) you don't get future updatesc) you no longer have the right to pay for support.
d) you can't re-apply current patches in a re-installGood additional points.
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@scottalanmiller said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@Dashrender said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
A) nothing happens to your current installs
b) you don't get future updatesc) you no longer have the right to pay for support.
d) you can't re-apply current patches in a re-installAre you certain about point d) ?
If you have the patch files, I think you can install them to get to the point where your support ended. Assuming you updated to that point.
And this assumes you save the patch files somewhere. .
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@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@scottalanmiller said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@Dashrender said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
A) nothing happens to your current installs
b) you don't get future updatesc) you no longer have the right to pay for support.
d) you can't re-apply current patches in a re-installAre you certain about point d) ?
If you have the patch files, I think you can install them to get to the point where your support ended. Assuming you updated to that point.
And this assumes you save the patch files somewhere. .
Assuming you've stored patch files somewhere. While someone might do that, I don't know of anyone who does. You could plan for it, I suppose.
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@scottalanmiller that is kind of my point. I believe you are allowed up upgrade to wherever you left off, so long as you have the files yourself. As VMWare removes access to the files if you aren't under maintenance.
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@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@scottalanmiller that is kind of my point. I believe you are allowed up upgrade to wherever you left off, so long as you have the files yourself. As VMWare removes access to the files if you aren't under maintenance.
Right, and ability to restore in case of hardware failure is pretty important to basically everyone.
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@scottalanmiller said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@scottalanmiller that is kind of my point. I believe you are allowed up upgrade to wherever you left off, so long as you have the files yourself. As VMWare removes access to the files if you aren't under maintenance.
Right, and ability to restore in case of hardware failure is pretty important to basically everyone.
If you don't keep your install ISO's, then that is pretty foolish and on your own head.
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@Donahue said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@scottalanmiller said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@scottalanmiller that is kind of my point. I believe you are allowed up upgrade to wherever you left off, so long as you have the files yourself. As VMWare removes access to the files if you aren't under maintenance.
Right, and ability to restore in case of hardware failure is pretty important to basically everyone.
If you don't keep your install ISO's, then that is pretty foolish and on your own head.
While it makes some sense to keep them, it is also unlike any other platform in the world that I can think of. Imagine if Microsoft started pulling Security patches off of their servers after your contract expires but the platform is still supported.
You'd be pissed as you should (without much hassle) be able to upgrade to where you left off.
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@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@Donahue said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@scottalanmiller said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@scottalanmiller that is kind of my point. I believe you are allowed up upgrade to wherever you left off, so long as you have the files yourself. As VMWare removes access to the files if you aren't under maintenance.
Right, and ability to restore in case of hardware failure is pretty important to basically everyone.
If you don't keep your install ISO's, then that is pretty foolish and on your own head.
While it makes some sense to keep them, it is also unlike any other platform in the world that I can think of. Imagine if Microsoft started pulling Security patches off of their servers after your contract expires but the platform is still supported.
You'd be pissed as you should (without much hassle) be able to upgrade to where you left off.
HPE does that shit now. No contract, some updates you can't have.
They seemed to have relaxed a bit on that though... Last year I couldn't get a BIOS update for something not on a support agreement, this year I can.
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@Donahue said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@scottalanmiller said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@scottalanmiller that is kind of my point. I believe you are allowed up upgrade to wherever you left off, so long as you have the files yourself. As VMWare removes access to the files if you aren't under maintenance.
Right, and ability to restore in case of hardware failure is pretty important to basically everyone.
If you don't keep your install ISO's, then that is pretty foolish and on your own head.
It's not the install ISOs in question here. It's every online patch applied over the years.
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@Dashrender said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@Donahue said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@scottalanmiller said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@scottalanmiller that is kind of my point. I believe you are allowed up upgrade to wherever you left off, so long as you have the files yourself. As VMWare removes access to the files if you aren't under maintenance.
Right, and ability to restore in case of hardware failure is pretty important to basically everyone.
If you don't keep your install ISO's, then that is pretty foolish and on your own head.
While it makes some sense to keep them, it is also unlike any other platform in the world that I can think of. Imagine if Microsoft started pulling Security patches off of their servers after your contract expires but the platform is still supported.
You'd be pissed as you should (without much hassle) be able to upgrade to where you left off.
HPE does that shit now. No contract, some updates you can't have.
They seemed to have relaxed a bit on that though... Last year I couldn't get a BIOS update for something not on a support agreement, this year I can.
Cisco commonly does that, too.
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Sigh
A quick summary of what we've learned here...
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vSphere retail on-premise socket licensing (What spending less than 250K) is normally perpetual.
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The only exceptions to this would certain OEM Appliance licensing (Think VxRAIL), or the retail subscription for Essentials/Essentials Plus - (Note, I never met anyone who purchased this SKU).
2b. It's worth noting that VMware has vSphere in cloud providers where it's monthly terms.
- Sns - You don't need a current subscription to download security patches (those VIB's are on the public web). It's worth noting the big thing here is access to updates and upgrades that include features, as well as the ability to call someone and troubleshoot the platform. If you have any security questions the team's PGP key can be found here. https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/1055
https://kb.vmware.com/s/article/1055
@DustinB3403 said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
As VMWare removes access to the files if you aren't under maintenance.
Upgrade VIBs/Offline bundles sit on the public internet with no logon. Otherwise I couldn't CLI upgrade a host doing this...
# esxcli software vib install -v https://hostupdate.vmware.com/software/VUM/PRODUCTION/main/esx/vmw/vib20/tools-light/VMware_locker_tools-light_5.0.0-0.7.515841.vib -
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@Dashrender said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
And the rest of setup for VMWare itself is like 20 mins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qc6BYlet3I Does a pretty good job of building a full cluster with clustered storage in under 4 minutes using the UI.
@scottalanmiller said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
@Dashrender said in With ESXi Licensing what happens if I let it lapse:
Are you saying that KVM can be done lock stock and barrel in 1:20 ? The toss in backups - you mentioned all kinds of tech for backups.
That you think 1:20 is even hard, this shows how skewed Vmware has made you. Of course, I can do it in 1:20. We normally do it in closer to :20.
I can instantly clone a nested environment in 10 seconds or less (it's a bit cheeze to clone to` a running state but it's a thing). If we are talking bare metal VMC can auto-scale every 5 minutes without your intervention.
