Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This
-
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Recruiters are not like car salesmen in this aspect. The IT people are like the cars, the clients are like the car buyers. You absolutely want the cars all in one spot, not one on one.
Nope, because the recruiter is selling you the position as much as he's selling you to the employer. If you're not interested, he loses as much as when the employer is not interested
-
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
How is answering something once instead of a thousand times "swamped"? Reducing overhead is part of the goal.
Because they don't want to answer such questions in public. This is exactly the used car case - whatever you agree on is what matters and the recruiter is there to pretty much get the most out of you. How often have you actually heard the recruiter say "they are paying X dollars" on the get-go?
-
@dyasny said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Recruiters are not like car salesmen in this aspect. The IT people are like the cars, the clients are like the car buyers. You absolutely want the cars all in one spot, not one on one.
Nope, because the recruiter is selling you the position as much as he's selling you to the employer. If you're not interested, he loses as much as when the employer is not interested
Yes, but it's one to many. Not one to one. It's very different from the way you are using the car buying model.
In reality, it's many to many. A recruiter will have loads of jobs and loads of candidates. But that's like a car salesman.
-
@dyasny said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
How is answering something once instead of a thousand times "swamped"? Reducing overhead is part of the goal.
Because they don't want to answer such questions in public. This is exactly the used car case - whatever you agree on is what matters and the recruiter is there to pretty much get the most out of you. How often have you actually heard the recruiter say "they are paying X dollars" on the get-go?
That's fine, but that's different than being swamped. That's not wanting to be exposed, which is a different problem.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Yes, but it's one to many. Not one to one. It's very different from the way you are using the car buying model.
The model is one-to-one-to-one where the ones are you, recruiter and employer. Repeated times candidates, but also times recruiters the employer contacted and positions the recruiter can offer you with various employers and... In the end - the recruiter wants to convince you to start the process and hopes you can make it through the interviews. The first part is much harder when he is bombarded with questions (and sarcasm, of course) by a bunch of potential candidates, instead of just reaching someone he targeted specifically.
In reality, it's many to many. A recruiter will have loads of jobs and loads of candidates. But that's like a car salesman.
And the candidate might have many recruiters getting him into interviews and the employer might be working with many recruiters. It's a free market
-
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
That's fine, but that's different than being swamped. That's not wanting to be exposed, which is a different problem.
That's the reason they don't go for public conversations. You end up on the defensive and as a salesman (and that's what they are in the end) you never want to be there.
I'm on a few technical channels on Telegram, and every time a recruiter pops in trying to hunt for channel-relevant profile people, they end up running away, because questions start pouring in, most of them as snarky as you can imagine.
A community on facebook I'm in, just had a guy trying to recruit someone for a very cool position, but was offering about 50% of what the job was worth. He made the mistake of actually mentioning the sum in public, and was immediately told this is half the expected price. Which immediately terminated a few PM conversations he had going, because people saw that, checked the salaries online and told him to go look for suckers elsewhere. He could have been caught in a 1:1 conversation, but the chances of that are much lower, and he might have even found a cheap guy agreeing to the wages. And that guys would have signed some non-competition agreement which would effectively bar him from the industry once he realised he was severely underpaid and wanted to leave.
-
@dyasny said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
And the candidate might have many recruiters getting him into interviews and the employer might be working with many recruiters. It's a free market
That's where doing a better job and pulling in a unique talent pool could be a huge boom.
-
@dyasny that is very true, any public discussion of jobs tends to expose how bad things are likely to be.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
That's where doing a better job and pulling in a unique talent pool could be a huge boom.
I doubt there is such a thing as "unique" talent pool. Every pro who is worth anything will have hundreds of recruiters in his LI connections after a while, and they can all try to tap him for the same position at some point. Happens to me almost on a weekly basis here in Montreal, and used to happen every day when I lived in Israel. I usually just go with whoever contacted me first, if I'm interested at all
-
@dyasny said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
That's where doing a better job and pulling in a unique talent pool could be a huge boom.
I doubt there is such a thing as "unique" talent pool. Every pro who is worth anything will have hundreds of recruiters in his LI connections after a while, and they can all try to tap him for the same position at some point. Happens to me almost on a weekly basis here in Montreal, and used to happen every day when I lived in Israel. I usually just go with whoever contacted me first, if I'm interested at all
Yeah, but most good people stop paying attention to them. I have hundreds, but not a single one can figure out what country I'm in or how to tell me about relevant jobs. The size of the pool doesn't do any of them any good, they can't identify skills, location, interest, etc.
In the SMB space, people actually struggle a lot to find recruiters that can handle them. Finding anyone recruiting outside of the key metros is actually quite hard.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Yeah, but most good people stop paying attention to them. I have hundreds, but not a single one can figure out what country I'm in or how to tell me about relevant jobs. The size of the pool doesn't do any of them any good, they can't identify skills, location, interest, etc.
In the SMB space, people actually struggle a lot to find recruiters that can handle them. Finding anyone recruiting outside of the key metros is actually quite hard.
Maybe, I'm not in SMB, and haven't been in over a decade, so I don't know. And the only companies I would go for are either very serious brands in the industry or startups that I have inside information about being potentially very successful. Also, I simply mark myself as belonging to a large metro area, even if I'm out in the suburbs and have no intention of commuting to the office every day. Been working from home for 99% of the time for the past 10 years, and I see no reason to change that
-
@dyasny said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Yeah, but most good people stop paying attention to them. I have hundreds, but not a single one can figure out what country I'm in or how to tell me about relevant jobs. The size of the pool doesn't do any of them any good, they can't identify skills, location, interest, etc.
In the SMB space, people actually struggle a lot to find recruiters that can handle them. Finding anyone recruiting outside of the key metros is actually quite hard.
Maybe, I'm not in SMB, and haven't been in over a decade, so I don't know. And the only companies I would go for are either very serious brands in the industry or startups that I have inside information about being potentially very successful. Also, I simply mark myself as belonging to a large metro area, even if I'm out in the suburbs and have no intention of commuting to the office every day. Been working from home for 99% of the time for the past 10 years, and I see no reason to change that
Yeah, but where do you "mark" things? It's not like there is some universal place to mark things. Every place that I have to mark things has be in Europe or LATAM, and I live in Texas, and that's all pretty obvious and public, but no recruiter I've ever seen uses any of those sources and just assumes places that I neither live in, nor or really from, nor consider going to.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Yeah, but where do you "mark" things? It's not like there is some universal place to mark things. Every place that I have to mark things has be in Europe or LATAM, and I live in Texas, and that's all pretty obvious and public, but no recruiter I've ever seen uses any of those sources and just assumes places that I neither live in, nor or really from, nor consider going to.
LI has a location field you fill out in the profile, for example
-
@dyasny said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Yeah, but where do you "mark" things? It's not like there is some universal place to mark things. Every place that I have to mark things has be in Europe or LATAM, and I live in Texas, and that's all pretty obvious and public, but no recruiter I've ever seen uses any of those sources and just assumes places that I neither live in, nor or really from, nor consider going to.
LI has a location field you fill out in the profile, for example
Yeah, that's one that I'm specifically thinking of. That specifically they seem to universally ignore.
-
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Yeah, that's one that I'm specifically thinking of. That specifically they seem to universally ignore.
Seems to work for me quite well
-
@dyasny said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Yeah, that's one that I'm specifically thinking of. That specifically they seem to universally ignore.
Seems to work for me quite well
Maybe if you reach out and try to search for jobs. But working the other way, only being reached by people trying to get me to work with them, it's completely useless (not that I ever was on LI for that purpose.)
-
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Maybe if you reach out and try to search for jobs. But working the other way, only being reached by people trying to get me to work with them, it's completely useless (not that I ever was on LI for that purpose.)
It's been over 5 years since I last went actually sending CVs out
So it's pretty much recruiters pinging me all the time -
@dyasny said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Maybe if you reach out and try to search for jobs. But working the other way, only being reached by people trying to get me to work with them, it's completely useless (not that I ever was on LI for that purpose.)
It's been over 5 years since I last went actually sending CVs out
So it's pretty much recruiters pinging me all the timeMost recruiters sending me things don't even state where the job is. It's a weird thing I've found, like they think that there is only one market in the whole world and that I'll just know where they must mean.
My first question is always "what country is this for"?
-
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Most recruiters sending me things don't even state where the job is. It's a weird thing I've found, like they think that there is only one market in the whole world and that I'll just know where they must mean.
My first question is always "what country is this for"?
Strange, I typically see them specifying the city or whether or not the job is remote from the very start. There was a bit of initial confusion when I moved countries several times, but it straightens out quite quickly
-
@dyasny said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
@scottalanmiller said in Why Do Recruiters Never Get Involved in Forums Like This:
Most recruiters sending me things don't even state where the job is. It's a weird thing I've found, like they think that there is only one market in the whole world and that I'll just know where they must mean.
My first question is always "what country is this for"?
Strange, I typically see them specifying the city or whether or not the job is remote from the very start. There was a bit of initial confusion when I moved countries several times, but it straightens out quite quickly
Definitely many do specify, but an absurd number do not.
