MSP or VAR or just avoid
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@travisdh1 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
Normally at least 12 hosts before a SAN starts to make sense.
It's way higher now. It's like 12 before there is any change, and more like 40+ before it might start to get likely. With modern Network RAID and RAIN scaling past the hypervisor failure domain limits, SAN is beginning to no longer have the "large capacity space" value it had just a few years ago. There is no longer any size where it automatically starts to make sense like it used to.
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@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
So how do you find a MSP?
- You never look for one locally.
- You have at least two in this thread.
MSPs are all over, just waiting for customers. But VARs are willing to be more aggressive and deceptive and companies fall all over themselves to get the "easy" answers from VARs.
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@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
As I don't know any companies in the UK that only do services/advice. They all will sell you kit
In any market, 99% of companeis are VARs, not MSPs / ITSPs. The service provider market is actually very small, and very hard. SPs provide IT services, rather than products. So you have to pay them.
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@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
I think in the UK especially in Wales these sort of things are hard to distinguish as companies here tend to do everything.
It's always trivial to distinguish. What you find in most markets is that no one is going to build an MSP / ITSP in a small market because there are SO few customers who care.
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@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@kelly said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
The easiest divider I've found is if you have to pay for the time an engineer to tell you what to buy then you're probably talking to an MSP instead of a VAR.
The only problem there, is that some VARs will charge you for labour to hide that they are a VAR.
It's way better to look at it the other way, because the VAR is the taint, not the consulting.
I've never had that happen. Usually they want me to talk to their "sales engineer" for no cost.
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@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
I think in the UK especially in Wales these sort of things are hard to distinguish as companies here tend to do everything.
One thing that is really important is that VARs sometimes need to be local, *SPs should not be. There is no locality value to IT, so looking locally, even within your country is often pointless. You should be looking at the UK as a whole, or globally, because companies who want good consulting sure don't care that it is or isn't local, and the SPs that provide it definitely aren't worried about their locality, and the majority of clients are multi-regional anyway.
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Sorry trying to answer and ask questions from a tablet, I an't keeping up with me lol
But this is all good advice and tips for everyone I think. -
@kelly said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@kelly said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
The easiest divider I've found is if you have to pay for the time an engineer to tell you what to buy then you're probably talking to an MSP instead of a VAR.
The only problem there, is that some VARs will charge you for labour to hide that they are a VAR.
It's way better to look at it the other way, because the VAR is the taint, not the consulting.
I've never had that happen. Usually they want me to talk to their "sales engineer" for no cost.
That MEANS it's a VAR, always. Anyone who is free, is a salesman.
But there are loads of VARs that know that people use that trick, and offer to sell support too, to confuse customers.
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@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
The other support the MPLS (they don't supply it. We "purchased it from then" but it run by a ISP).
That's as VAR as VAR gets. The "R" stands for Reseller.
The "R" actually stands for "bunch of crooked ass mafackas that will lie to your face to make more money".
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@rojoloco said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
The other support the MPLS (they don't supply it. We "purchased it from then" but it run by a ISP).
That's as VAR as VAR gets. The "R" stands for Reseller.
The "R" actually stands for "bunch of crooked ass mafackas that will lie to your face to make more money".
There really can be good VARs, they are just few and far between because there is so much more money in being crooked.
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@Breffni-Potter is near London. @Huw3481 is in Nottingham. Not right next door, but closer than across the pond, and both are MSP/ITSPs.
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@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@kelly said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@kelly said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
The easiest divider I've found is if you have to pay for the time an engineer to tell you what to buy then you're probably talking to an MSP instead of a VAR.
The only problem there, is that some VARs will charge you for labour to hide that they are a VAR.
It's way better to look at it the other way, because the VAR is the taint, not the consulting.
I've never had that happen. Usually they want me to talk to their "sales engineer" for no cost.
That MEANS it's a VAR, always. Anyone who is free, is a salesman.
Think this gets me confused as we always "talk" to the " engineer " get get a solution
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@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@rojoloco said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
The other support the MPLS (they don't supply it. We "purchased it from then" but it run by a ISP).
That's as VAR as VAR gets. The "R" stands for Reseller.
The "R" actually stands for "bunch of crooked ass mafackas that will lie to your face to make more money".
There really can be good VARs, they are just few and far between because there is so much more money in being crooked.
Like this shit...
http://www.curiouscables.com/Audiophiles get fucking stupid
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@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@rojoloco said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
The other support the MPLS (they don't supply it. We "purchased it from then" but it run by a ISP).
That's as VAR as VAR gets. The "R" stands for Reseller.
The "R" actually stands for "bunch of crooked ass mafackas that will lie to your face to make more money".
There really can be good VARs, they are just few and far between because there is so much more money in being crooked.
"I'm in sales" = "I'd _____ your grandma on her birthday to get a sale".
I did sales. I know for a fact that they are a bunch of crooked mafackas. Sell what makes you the biggest commission.
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@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
...a SAN doesn't fit until you have several hosts and hundreds of VMs
Just to be clear on this point....
The number of hosts is a huge factor, but the number of VMs is not. In fact, that you are virtual or physical is not a factor. The value of a SAN is never caused by number of workloads, virtualization, or factors such as that. SAN's value (which is often sans value, see what I did there?) is based on the number of physical hosts combined with the balancing of factors that matter to the business such as capacity and reliability.
SANs are best when you have a huge number of hosts and value low cost over reliability to an extreme degree.
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@kelly thanks for that forgot to see who was here before starting lol.
But again this is all good as a discussion to help others -
@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@kelly said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@scottalanmiller said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@kelly said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
The easiest divider I've found is if you have to pay for the time an engineer to tell you what to buy then you're probably talking to an MSP instead of a VAR.
The only problem there, is that some VARs will charge you for labour to hide that they are a VAR.
It's way better to look at it the other way, because the VAR is the taint, not the consulting.
I've never had that happen. Usually they want me to talk to their "sales engineer" for no cost.
That MEANS it's a VAR, always. Anyone who is free, is a salesman.
Think this gets me confused as we always "talk" to the " engineer " get get a solution
A free engineer is a salesman. No exceptions. Just always keep that in mind. They are a sales engineer, they engineer the sale. Just like a network engineer designs your network, a sales engineer designs the sale.
Sales is sales.
Consulting is when you pay for someone to give you advice. Sales is when you pay someone for selling you something you didn't want to buy.
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@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@kelly thanks for that forgot to see who was here before starting lol.
But again this is all good as a discussion to help othersI'll rephrase....... before getting involved
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Using MSPs or ITSPs (many companies are both, but don't use the terminology as it is just easier to say MSP) is generally advised across the board for small businesses, you just need the scale and services that they provide. There is no good option to survive without them. Often, your service providers will bring VAR relationships or experience with them.
In reality, finding a good MSP is way easier than finding a good VAR. because MSPs are pretty easy to judge based on competence as they provide IT. So you can look at the IT that they do and see how good they are. A VAR is very hard to judge because they do sales and how do we as IT pros gauge the quality of their "value add" easily?
Finding "a" VAR is trivially easy, they are everywhere and are a dime a dozen. Finding a good one is essentially impossible. Finding "an" MSP is hard, because they are few and far between. Finding a good one is still hard, but not nearly as hard. Most are incompetent, but the chances of finding a good one is way better than the needle in a haystack problem with a VAR.
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@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@hobbit666 said in MSP or VAR or just avoid:
@kelly thanks for that forgot to see who was here before starting lol.
But again this is all good as a discussion to help othersI'll rephrase....... before getting involved
There are loads here.... many from a new MSPs. MSPs are pretty common in places like ML because 1) it's open for them to participate and 2) MSPs do IT and this is an IT forum so they gravitate to places like this.
