If all hypervisors were priced the same...
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@scottalanmiller said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
It really comes down to "if VMware was free", would it make a difference.
That's a fair summation.
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@scottalanmiller said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@emad-r said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
- VMware ESXi cause It was the first to put web UI i reckon for management of the hyper-visor, ...
Was it? Maybe, I'm not sure. But we were all begging for it from everyone at the time that they did it.
I was in highschool I think and it was a pretty big deal I remember.
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@coliver said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@scottalanmiller said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@emad-r said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
- VMware ESXi cause It was the first to put web UI i reckon for management of the hyper-visor, ...
Was it? Maybe, I'm not sure. But we were all begging for it from everyone at the time that they did it.
I was in highschool I think and it was a pretty big deal I remember.
OMG HS, for most of us this "just happened".
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Personally if VMWare with all features was free I would go with that. Only because it's what I know and have used for production since I started using virtualization.
But I am starting to learn more about XenServer (soon to be XCP-ng) and KVM so I might change my mind over the next few years.
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@emad-r Yeah, very hard to get easier than that.
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Going to be migrating Hyper-V to KVM where I am right now. Just makes more sense for them now. Going to try to get COckpit in for that
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Looking at the cockpit add ons for this on my home lab.
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@scottalanmiller said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@coliver said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@scottalanmiller said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@emad-r said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
- VMware ESXi cause It was the first to put web UI i reckon for management of the hyper-visor, ...
Was it? Maybe, I'm not sure. But we were all begging for it from everyone at the time that they did it.
I was in highschool I think and it was a pretty big deal I remember.
OMG HS, for most of us this "just happened".
We've talked fairly extensively about how old you are.
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@coliver said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@scottalanmiller said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@coliver said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@scottalanmiller said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@emad-r said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
- VMware ESXi cause It was the first to put web UI i reckon for management of the hyper-visor, ...
Was it? Maybe, I'm not sure. But we were all begging for it from everyone at the time that they did it.
I was in highschool I think and it was a pretty big deal I remember.
OMG HS, for most of us this "just happened".
We've talked fairly extensively about how old you are.
Ya like Iām within a couple years of being able to be his kid.
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@stacksofplates said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@coliver said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@scottalanmiller said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@coliver said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@scottalanmiller said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@emad-r said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
- VMware ESXi cause It was the first to put web UI i reckon for management of the hyper-visor, ...
Was it? Maybe, I'm not sure. But we were all begging for it from everyone at the time that they did it.
I was in highschool I think and it was a pretty big deal I remember.
OMG HS, for most of us this "just happened".
We've talked fairly extensively about how old you are.
Ya like Iām within a couple years of being able to be his kid.
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@scottalanmiller said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@stacksofplates said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@coliver said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@scottalanmiller said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@coliver said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@scottalanmiller said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@emad-r said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
- VMware ESXi cause It was the first to put web UI i reckon for management of the hyper-visor, ...
Was it? Maybe, I'm not sure. But we were all begging for it from everyone at the time that they did it.
I was in highschool I think and it was a pretty big deal I remember.
OMG HS, for most of us this "just happened".
We've talked fairly extensively about how old you are.
Ya like Iām within a couple years of being able to be his kid.
You can all just STFU now about the age thing...
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@jaredbusch said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@scottalanmiller said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@stacksofplates said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@coliver said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@scottalanmiller said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@coliver said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@scottalanmiller said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@emad-r said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
- VMware ESXi cause It was the first to put web UI i reckon for management of the hyper-visor, ...
Was it? Maybe, I'm not sure. But we were all begging for it from everyone at the time that they did it.
I was in highschool I think and it was a pretty big deal I remember.
OMG HS, for most of us this "just happened".
We've talked fairly extensively about how old you are.
Ya like Iām within a couple years of being able to be his kid.
You can all just STFU now about the age thing...
Feeling old you? Your DOB you!
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@stacksofplates said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@coliver said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@scottalanmiller said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@coliver said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@scottalanmiller said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@emad-r said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
- VMware ESXi cause It was the first to put web UI i reckon for management of the hyper-visor, ...
Was it? Maybe, I'm not sure. But we were all begging for it from everyone at the time that they did it.
I was in highschool I think and it was a pretty big deal I remember.
OMG HS, for most of us this "just happened".
We've talked fairly extensively about how old you are.
Ya like Iām within a couple years of being able to be his kid.
Why do we need to bring up the age thing, we all just get along in someway but age here is not the factor.
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@dustinb3403 As someone who ran Xen for a while I never bothered to look at the source code.
While I have access to one of the commercial hypervisors code, and early builds it's really the last code we produce that I"m generally interested in (Generally more interested in health check code as I"m working with engineering on some new ones).I've reported CVE worthy bugs in commercial software and the code was really the last thing I needed to do to find them. It's generally as simple as finding an exception case, or noticing that they are using a protocol that can't be secured (TFTP) improperly (leaving things in the directory).
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@tim_g said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
If features and costs (free) were identical across the board, I would choose KVM hands down.
I love being able to run off Fedora Server, plus all the doors that open up by doing that... which you can't get from Hyper-V or VMWare.
Sure Xen can be installed on there too, but it's dieing and I'm less familiar with it.I've always liked a tiny hypervisor and push the management off to API's (That can have layered UI/CLI) rather than install the damn kitchen sink on the hypervisor. What value does Fedora Server bring for actually running on the KVM hosts? You need to run Containers on ring 0 or something weird?
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@emad-r said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
KVM, not cause of KVM cause it runs and actively supported and updated on Linux OSes, so eventually we will get all the features if not more, and benefits and more of ESXi via external packages like mdraid + cockpit, so you can build pretty strong system but the learning curve can scare people away.
People talk a lot about MDRAID, but given how hit/miss hot-add are on HBA's (Glares at HPE) or that it's commonly done with AHCI controllers (Garbage performance QD=25 for ALL drives!) I don't see what the big deal is about buying a proper raid controller that you can access through out of band (iLO/iDRAC), has proper hot-add support, and a NVDIMM cache, or layering a distributed SDS system on top (in which case you don't use MDRAID. Even RedHat was requiring a local raid controller for their cluster HCI thing last time I checked.
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@bnrstnr said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
I've never even used VMware, but I'm pretty sure if every single feature was available for free (like all the other hypervisors), then I'm pretty sure that's a no-brainer.
It's not just feature but ecosytem to consider. xxx hypervisor may work for what you do, but what if you need to run XenDesktop. It's not a supported hypervisor for them to do PVS/MCS automation with. What if you needs FIPS 140-2 compliance, or need a DISA STIG.
What if you need NSX/microsegmentation and service insertion support? NSX-T can cover KVM, but for Hyper-V or Xen you'll need to deploy a gateway.
Hypervisor requirements tend to not live in a vacuum, and that drives a lot of stuff.
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@storageninja said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
What value does Fedora Server bring for actually running on the KVM hosts?
Control, access, security, open source, etc.
Cockpit for example. Any linux tools at your disposal.
I never said anything about installing kitchen sinks. Dumb assumption.
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@storageninja said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
@emad-r said in If all hypervisors were priced the same...:
KVM, not cause of KVM cause it runs and actively supported and updated on Linux OSes, so eventually we will get all the features if not more, and benefits and more of ESXi via external packages like mdraid + cockpit, so you can build pretty strong system but the learning curve can scare people away.
People talk a lot about MDRAID, but given how hit/miss hot-add are on HBA's (Glares at HPE) or that it's commonly done with AHCI controllers (Garbage performance QD=25 for ALL drives!) I don't see what the big deal is about buying a proper raid controller that you can access through out of band (iLO/iDRAC), has proper hot-add support, and a NVDIMM cache, or layering a distributed SDS system on top (in which case you don't use MDRAID. Even RedHat was requiring a local raid controller for their cluster HCI thing last time I checked.
You can always start with centos minimal or fedora minimal , then install KVM on them, you will be surprised how lean and small the system is, regarding why Fedora check this:
https://mangolassi.it/topic/16450/meltdown-shows-why-to-avoid-lts-releases
2nd of all, the performance is not bad in my tests, its very good even with 2 degraded disks, and why purchase RAID controller when you get good amount of reliability using software RAID, Linux software RAID have been tested alot and alot and many big companies of enterprise NAS systems utilize it. I understahd that hardware RAID controller works most of the time for nearly anything, and software raid most properly will fail due to end user fault, cause it has some learning curve.
Other than that if you look at the modular approach here
Any linux OS really
Linux RAID
cockpit
KVMThats pretty sweet, and KVM is getting a nice management interface by accident, which means we can build very reliable system on the cheap.
Not sure what you mean about proper hot add support ? you either have it or you dont.
And there are good Chipsets lately from AMD and INTEL, especially after Ryzen and we have truly enterprise quality SATA disks from WD, the RED series are very proven and reliable and good durable HDD using PMR, just steer away of those HAMR ones and you will be good to go.
