I can't even

scottalanmiller

It is very specifically the use of the Hyper-V Replication function within Hyper-V that requires SA to be allowed to replicate a VM to another server.

Do you have the reference on that? I've heard it so much that I keep assuming that it is true, but I realized today that I've not been able to actually find anything that says that. It's all something I've heard from a third party and I wonder if it isn't the same misquoting that we get about replicas in general.

scottalanmiller

@brrabill said in I can't even:

@scottalanmiller said

but they always include the assumption that you will turn it on.

If a server is in the woods, but is never turned on, is it really a server?

Nope, and that's the rub. It's just metal.

Obsolesce

So, the guy who talks directly to Microsoft to ask these very questions is incorrect?
http://www.aidanfinn.com/?p=11837

Windows Server 8 Hyper-V Replica, Veeam, Etc With Hosting Companies

If you replicate a VM from your licensed hosts to a hosting company of some sort using Hyper-V Replica (Windows Server or one of the plethora of 3rd party alternatives, then you need to license the installation of Windows that is in each replica VM … even if it is powered off or locked in a replicating state. Don’t bother with any of the usual “it’s not being used” or “it’s only being replicated” arguments … it needs a license so that’s that.

A benefit of Software Assurance is Cold Back-ups for Disaster Recovery. This means that if you license your hosts (and thus your guest OSs if correctly licensed with Enterprise/Datacenter editions) with SA, then you get a benefit of licensing for the cold backup copy. The alternative is to not buy SA for the host/guests and have to buy full licenses for the offline replicas. This benefit allows your primary site to go offline and to power up the replicas during a catastrophic event. You can do this without doing anything to activate the benefit or without communicating with Microsoft.

DustinB3403

@tim_g said in I can't even:

So, the guy who talks directly to Microsoft to ask these very questions is incorrect?

Windows Server 8 Hyper-V Replica, Veeam, Etc With Hosting Companies

If you replicate a VM from your licensed hosts to a hosting company of some sort using Hyper-V Replica (Windows Server or one of the plethora of 3rd party alternatives, then you need to license the installation of Windows that is in each replica VM … even if it is powered off or locked in a replicating state. Don’t bother with any of the usual “it’s not being used” or “it’s only being replicated” arguments … it needs a license so that’s that.

A benefit of Software Assurance is Cold Back-ups for Disaster Recovery. This means that if you license your hosts (and thus your guest OSs if correctly licensed with Enterprise/Datacenter editions) with SA, then you get a benefit of licensing for the cold backup copy. The alternative is to not buy SA for the host/guests and have to buy full licenses for the offline replicas. This benefit allows your primary site to go offline and to power up the replicas during a catastrophic event. You can do this without doing anything to activate the benefit or without communicating with Microsoft.

Who are you quoting here, and I'm assuming you're stating they are wrong?

Obsolesce

@dustinb3403 said in I can't even:

@tim_g said in I can't even:

So, the guy who talks directly to Microsoft to ask these very questions is incorrect?

Windows Server 8 Hyper-V Replica, Veeam, Etc With Hosting Companies

If you replicate a VM from your licensed hosts to a hosting company of some sort using Hyper-V Replica (Windows Server or one of the plethora of 3rd party alternatives, then you need to license the installation of Windows that is in each replica VM … even if it is powered off or locked in a replicating state. Don’t bother with any of the usual “it’s not being used” or “it’s only being replicated” arguments … it needs a license so that’s that.

A benefit of Software Assurance is Cold Back-ups for Disaster Recovery. This means that if you license your hosts (and thus your guest OSs if correctly licensed with Enterprise/Datacenter editions) with SA, then you get a benefit of licensing for the cold backup copy. The alternative is to not buy SA for the host/guests and have to buy full licenses for the offline replicas. This benefit allows your primary site to go offline and to power up the replicas during a catastrophic event. You can do this without doing anything to activate the benefit or without communicating with Microsoft.

Who are you quoting here, and I'm assuming you're stating they are wrong?

Sorry the link didn't paste. I edited it in.

scottalanmiller

@tim_g said in I can't even:

So, the guy who talks directly to Microsoft to ask these very questions is incorrect?
http://www.aidanfinn.com/?p=11837

Windows Server 8 Hyper-V Replica, Veeam, Etc With Hosting Companies

If you replicate a VM from your licensed hosts to a hosting company of some sort using Hyper-V Replica (Windows Server or one of the plethora of 3rd party alternatives, then you need to license the installation of Windows that is in each replica VM … even if it is powered off or locked in a replicating state. Don’t bother with any of the usual “it’s not being used” or “it’s only being replicated” arguments … it needs a license so that’s that.

A benefit of Software Assurance is Cold Back-ups for Disaster Recovery. This means that if you license your hosts (and thus your guest OSs if correctly licensed with Enterprise/Datacenter editions) with SA, then you get a benefit of licensing for the cold backup copy. The alternative is to not buy SA for the host/guests and have to buy full licenses for the offline replicas. This benefit allows your primary site to go offline and to power up the replicas during a catastrophic event. You can do this without doing anything to activate the benefit or without communicating with Microsoft.

That's the misinformation I'm talking about. MS never says anything about that. And it is obviously not true as it means things like Veeam can't be used.

This is beyond question, incorrect information. That much we know for a fact. There is nothing from MS that suggests anything of the sort and if they did, it would be the instant end of Windows.

scottalanmiller

http://download.microsoft.com/download/6/C/5/6C576C0C-F740-48E2-86E1-25B15BE23879/dr_brief.doc

This is a useful doc. A lot of people say that this is the source of why you need SA for replicas, but it is pretty clear that this is the very document that implies that you don't - as it makes it clear that you only need SA once you intend to use the replica for DR (where DR is MS' code for going live.) Until such time as you intend to make it running, no licensing is needed.

Obsolesce

@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:

@tim_g said in I can't even:

So, the guy who talks directly to Microsoft to ask these very questions is incorrect?
http://www.aidanfinn.com/?p=11837

Windows Server 8 Hyper-V Replica, Veeam, Etc With Hosting Companies

If you replicate a VM from your licensed hosts to a hosting company of some sort using Hyper-V Replica (Windows Server or one of the plethora of 3rd party alternatives, then you need to license the installation of Windows that is in each replica VM … even if it is powered off or locked in a replicating state. Don’t bother with any of the usual “it’s not being used” or “it’s only being replicated” arguments … it needs a license so that’s that.

A benefit of Software Assurance is Cold Back-ups for Disaster Recovery. This means that if you license your hosts (and thus your guest OSs if correctly licensed with Enterprise/Datacenter editions) with SA, then you get a benefit of licensing for the cold backup copy. The alternative is to not buy SA for the host/guests and have to buy full licenses for the offline replicas. This benefit allows your primary site to go offline and to power up the replicas during a catastrophic event. You can do this without doing anything to activate the benefit or without communicating with Microsoft.

That's the misinformation I'm talking about. MS never says anything about that. And it is obviously not true as it means things like Veeam can't be used.

This is beyond question, incorrect information. That much we know for a fact. There is nothing from MS that suggests anything of the sort and if they did, it would be the instant end of Windows.

You are using industry standard terms to justify your misconception of what MS licensing is required. You need to go by what they say, not what you are.

You are saying that a VM replica and a backup are the same thing. Yes, technically they are and you are right. But this is not how MS is referring to it.

They are separating the two to mean different things here.

If you are replicating a VM to another Hyper-V host, then it must be licensed, whether you are using the built-in Hyper-V Replication, Veeam Replication, etc... If you back up a VM, that's not what they are referring to as replication.

Even Veeam separates the two... Veeam Backup AND replication... Not just one or the other.

Obsolesce

YOu can do Veeam Backups, and then you can do Veeam Replication. They are different.

Obsolesce

It's the method that matters, not the means.

scottalanmiller

@tim_g said in I can't even:

YOu can do Veeam Backups, and then you can do Veeam Replication. They are different.

But both are replication, and both are backups. They just label them differently on top. And from MS' point of view, both are cold and require no licensing.

Obsolesce

@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:

http://download.microsoft.com/download/6/C/5/6C576C0C-F740-48E2-86E1-25B15BE23879/dr_brief.doc

This is a useful doc. A lot of people say that this is the source of why you need SA for replicas, but it is pretty clear that this is the very document that implies that you don't - as it makes it clear that you only need SA once you intend to use the replica for DR (where DR is MS' code for going live.) Until such time as you intend to make it running, no licensing is needed.

That document defines replication as a "warm backup".

scottalanmiller

@tim_g said in I can't even:

It's the method that matters, not the means.

Method and means are the same here. It's the ends that matter, not the means. And the ends of replica and backup is backup. And the means of both is replica (normally.)

The only thing that changes licensing for MS is whether someone fires it up or not. Until then, the ends are a backup (cold file.)

Obsolesce

@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:

@tim_g said in I can't even:

YOu can do Veeam Backups, and then you can do Veeam Replication. They are different.

But both are replication, and both are backups. They just label them differently on top. And from MS' point of view, both are cold and require no licensing.

Not according to Microsoft, and unfortunately, that is what matters. It doesn't matter what YOU or I define them as.

scottalanmiller

@tim_g said in I can't even:

@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:

http://download.microsoft.com/download/6/C/5/6C576C0C-F740-48E2-86E1-25B15BE23879/dr_brief.doc

This is a useful doc. A lot of people say that this is the source of why you need SA for replicas, but it is pretty clear that this is the very document that implies that you don't - as it makes it clear that you only need SA once you intend to use the replica for DR (where DR is MS' code for going live.) Until such time as you intend to make it running, no licensing is needed.

That document defines replication as a "warm backup".

Right, proving that it's not what we are talking about.

scottalanmiller

@tim_g said in I can't even:

@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:

@tim_g said in I can't even:

So, the guy who talks directly to Microsoft to ask these very questions is incorrect?
http://www.aidanfinn.com/?p=11837

Windows Server 8 Hyper-V Replica, Veeam, Etc With Hosting Companies

If you replicate a VM from your licensed hosts to a hosting company of some sort using Hyper-V Replica (Windows Server or one of the plethora of 3rd party alternatives, then you need to license the installation of Windows that is in each replica VM … even if it is powered off or locked in a replicating state. Don’t bother with any of the usual “it’s not being used” or “it’s only being replicated” arguments … it needs a license so that’s that.

A benefit of Software Assurance is Cold Back-ups for Disaster Recovery. This means that if you license your hosts (and thus your guest OSs if correctly licensed with Enterprise/Datacenter editions) with SA, then you get a benefit of licensing for the cold backup copy. The alternative is to not buy SA for the host/guests and have to buy full licenses for the offline replicas. This benefit allows your primary site to go offline and to power up the replicas during a catastrophic event. You can do this without doing anything to activate the benefit or without communicating with Microsoft.

That's the misinformation I'm talking about. MS never says anything about that. And it is obviously not true as it means things like Veeam can't be used.

This is beyond question, incorrect information. That much we know for a fact. There is nothing from MS that suggests anything of the sort and if they did, it would be the instant end of Windows.

You are using industry standard terms to justify your misconception of what MS licensing is required. You need to go by what they say, not what you are.

Hence why I provided their documentation that agrees.

scottalanmiller

@tim_g said in I can't even:

If you are replicating a VM to another Hyper-V host, then it must be licensed, whether you are using the built-in Hyper-V Replication, Veeam Replication, etc... If you back up a VM, that's not what they are referring to as replication.

So you believe that if your backup system is hosted on Hyper-V, that every copy stored by the backup system must then be licensed even if it is a traditional backup system? Because that falls under your description.

Obsolesce

@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:

@tim_g said in I can't even:

@scottalanmiller said in I can't even:

@tim_g said in I can't even:

So, the guy who talks directly to Microsoft to ask these very questions is incorrect?
http://www.aidanfinn.com/?p=11837

Windows Server 8 Hyper-V Replica, Veeam, Etc With Hosting Companies

If you replicate a VM from your licensed hosts to a hosting company of some sort using Hyper-V Replica (Windows Server or one of the plethora of 3rd party alternatives, then you need to license the installation of Windows that is in each replica VM … even if it is powered off or locked in a replicating state. Don’t bother with any of the usual “it’s not being used” or “it’s only being replicated” arguments … it needs a license so that’s that.

A benefit of Software Assurance is Cold Back-ups for Disaster Recovery. This means that if you license your hosts (and thus your guest OSs if correctly licensed with Enterprise/Datacenter editions) with SA, then you get a benefit of licensing for the cold backup copy. The alternative is to not buy SA for the host/guests and have to buy full licenses for the offline replicas. This benefit allows your primary site to go offline and to power up the replicas during a catastrophic event. You can do this without doing anything to activate the benefit or without communicating with Microsoft.

That's the misinformation I'm talking about. MS never says anything about that. And it is obviously not true as it means things like Veeam can't be used.

This is beyond question, incorrect information. That much we know for a fact. There is nothing from MS that suggests anything of the sort and if they did, it would be the instant end of Windows.

You are using industry standard terms to justify your misconception of what MS licensing is required. You need to go by what they say, not what you are.

Hence why I provided their documentation that agrees.

That documentation isn't written for VM and/or Hyper-V replication... it jsut has the word replicaiton in it, that is all.

Obsolesce

They are all referencing a document is is completely irrelevant.

scottalanmiller

0_1512598043125_DeepinScreenshot_select-area_20171206160716.png

Straight from the MS docs.

As MS makes clear, SA doesn't cover cold backups, but only cold backups that have additionally been set up for disaster recovery purposes only. They make it clear that standard replicas that are kept cold need no license.

My definition, industry definition, MS definition - all agree. I got it from this originally.

The term "been set up for DR purposes", of course, refers to being ready to turn on automatically and would then need the license ready before it turns on. One set to be turned on manually or that requires approval before turning on would not need the license, but it is not set up yet, but could be very quickly. At which time the license would be needed.