Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?
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@dashrender said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
Scott so what are you proposing?
nothing at all, I pointed out that there is a standard industry system that addresses this particular issue.
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@scottalanmiller said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@dashrender said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@scottalanmiller said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@dashrender said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
If you move the central storage to the cloud, now you're likely crippling the people's ability to save/copy data to some significantly lower throughput, short of spending some pretty big dollars compared to today.
Depends on how they save. They might not even notice.
you mean saving to something like a sync client?
I don't mean anything in particular. I'm just saying that it depends. You are assuming that 20-25 users on dedicated GigE ports talking to a single old server that likely has just one GigE port shared to all of those users will feel faster than those same users saving over the LAN on dedicated 50-150Mb/s ports to a single GigE port and I'm saying that that is not necessarily true. Tons of small files might never go above that speed, there might be so much contention that it doesn't matter, they might use sync clients or save behind the scenes... lots of reasons that they might not notice or not notice enough to care.
We're talking CAD files here. They don't tend to be small.
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@dashrender said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@scottalanmiller said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@dashrender said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
What about local network access in this case?
What about it? It wouldn't exist.
See my post to coliver.
That didn't make sense, because it would not exist.
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@dashrender said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@scottalanmiller said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@dashrender said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@scottalanmiller said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@dashrender said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
If you move the central storage to the cloud, now you're likely crippling the people's ability to save/copy data to some significantly lower throughput, short of spending some pretty big dollars compared to today.
Depends on how they save. They might not even notice.
you mean saving to something like a sync client?
I don't mean anything in particular. I'm just saying that it depends. You are assuming that 20-25 users on dedicated GigE ports talking to a single old server that likely has just one GigE port shared to all of those users will feel faster than those same users saving over the LAN on dedicated 50-150Mb/s ports to a single GigE port and I'm saying that that is not necessarily true. Tons of small files might never go above that speed, there might be so much contention that it doesn't matter, they might use sync clients or save behind the scenes... lots of reasons that they might not notice or not notice enough to care.
We're talking CAD files here. They don't tend to be small.
Someone pointed out that they are often small.
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@bnrstnr said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@luismc said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
They get 1TB in SharePoint and can upgrade (by paying), the item limit is 5k per library and 20k overall so I think they're okay.
Be careful here, cad part files can add up extremely quickly. I'm not in architecture, but our average job folder has 2k+ files. You'd burn through 20k files pretty quick if that's the case there too.
This is the post that I was mentioning. 2K files per job. They might not be tiny, but they can only be so big at that quantity. You might be dealing with loads and loads of pretty small files.
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@dashrender said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
I suppose that could work, IF the uploading to the central cloud storage happened timely enough for this traveling person to get what they wanted.
IIRC modern AutoCAD does saves when you modify a file. So you never really have to save, it works kind of like Office Online or Google Docs.
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@coliver said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@dashrender said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
I suppose that could work, IF the uploading to the central cloud storage happened timely enough for this traveling person to get what they wanted.
IIRC modern AutoCAD does saves when you modify a file. So you never really have to save, it works kind of like Office Online or Google Docs.
It did 7 years ago. This has been "modern" for a while now.
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@coliver said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@dashrender said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
I suppose that could work, IF the uploading to the central cloud storage happened timely enough for this traveling person to get what they wanted.
IIRC modern AutoCAD does saves when you modify a file. So you never really have to save, it works kind of like Office Online or Google Docs.
I wonder how that works for a sync client situation then?
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@coliver said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@dashrender said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
I suppose that could work, IF the uploading to the central cloud storage happened timely enough for this traveling person to get what they wanted.
IIRC modern AutoCAD does saves when you modify a file. So you never really have to save, it works kind of like Office Online or Google Docs.
And I think that they have a hosted system so that you never need to use old fashioned file serving.
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@dashrender said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@coliver said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@dashrender said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
I suppose that could work, IF the uploading to the central cloud storage happened timely enough for this traveling person to get what they wanted.
IIRC modern AutoCAD does saves when you modify a file. So you never really have to save, it works kind of like Office Online or Google Docs.
I wonder how that works for a sync client situation then?
Wouldn't affect anything. If you are saving to the sync location, it's like any other save. If it is syncing internally, it's all automatic.
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@dustinb3403 said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@coliver said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@dashrender said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
I suppose that could work, IF the uploading to the central cloud storage happened timely enough for this traveling person to get what they wanted.
IIRC modern AutoCAD does saves when you modify a file. So you never really have to save, it works kind of like Office Online or Google Docs.
It did 7 years ago. This has been "modern" for a while now.
It was right around when they introduced their "cloud" offering.
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@dashrender said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@coliver said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@dashrender said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
I suppose that could work, IF the uploading to the central cloud storage happened timely enough for this traveling person to get what they wanted.
IIRC modern AutoCAD does saves when you modify a file. So you never really have to save, it works kind of like Office Online or Google Docs.
I wonder how that works for a sync client situation then?
Sync normally happens due to either a modified tag or a time.
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CAD files are small, about 350KB on average. Apparently some of these Revit files are pretty big (150MB). One of the employees with a "faster computer" opens a file and it takes about 30 seconds. Others go grab a coffee and come back. Kind of absurd, if you ask me. The network is setup with GigE.
I chose SSDs because the client insisted. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there would be a big difference in pricing if I did HDD RAID10 vs SSD RAID5, at least that's what I thought when I ran the specs. -
@luismc said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
I chose SSDs because the client insisted. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there would be a big difference in pricing if I did HDD RAID10 vs SSD RAID5, at least that's what I thought when I ran the specs.
Typically it is a big difference, but it depends on the deal that you get. That's only four 2TB NL-SAS drives. Would be super cheap with spinners.
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@luismc said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
CAD files are small, about 350KB on average. Apparently some of these Revit files are pretty big (150MB). One of the employees with a "faster computer" opens a file and it takes about 30 seconds. Others go grab a coffee and come back. Kind of absurd, if you ask me. The network is setup with GigE.
Seems unlikely that they'd notice a change to a WAN link, unless this is an SMB limit from lots of small files, which might easily be the case. But a sync client might fix that, but introduce other annoyances.
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@luismc said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
CAD files are small, about 350KB on average. Apparently some of these Revit files are pretty big (150MB). One of the employees with a "faster computer" opens a file and it takes about 30 seconds. Others go grab a coffee and come back. Kind of absurd, if you ask me. The network is setup with GigE.
I chose SSDs because the client insisted. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there would be a big difference in pricing if I did HDD RAID10 vs SSD RAID5, at least that's what I thought when I ran the specs.For little files on LAN, SATA could be the bottleneck but for bigger files LAN is the bottleneck. Some 3D modeling softwares act really bad with Samba (linux layer to expose services to winodws clients). Or Solidworks files hang at opening from a linux NAS (buffalo). Moving them to a real windows machine solves the problem.
For remote access: how many people need this simoultaneously?! how meny times?!
@scottalanmiller is not fan of road warrior VPN but I'll invent more on a proper WAN connection and go SATA or NL-SAS OBR10.
Also would check what limits employer loading: is the PC really running lot of computation? is the server really spinning? is just everything stalling due to SMB protocol issues?!
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@matteo-nunziati @scottalanmiller so I guess I'm better off going RAID10 SATA or NL-SAS rather than RAID5 SSD then? I know my original post mentioned 4 drives, but they were complaining that it wouldn't be enough space in the future so I was going to add another. Not sure if that makes a difference and also not sure about the rebuild times for both cases.
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@luismc said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
@matteo-nunziati @scottalanmiller so I guess I'm better off going RAID10 SATA or NL-SAS rather than RAID5 SSD then? I know my original post mentioned 4 drives, but they were complaining that it wouldn't be enough space in the future so I was going to add another. Not sure if that makes a difference and also not sure about the rebuild times for both cases.
This makes the NL-SAS RAID 10 approach make way more sense then. The SSD with RAID 5 will get expensive quickly as you add drives or go for larger drive sizes. You are getting 2.4TB here. The smallest reasonable RAID 10 would be 4TB usable. Go to 3TB or 4TB drives, still very cheap, and you get 6TB and 8TB usable for that small, additional cost.
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@luismc said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
Not sure if that makes a difference and also not sure about the rebuild times for both cases.
SSD rebuilds are typically insanely fast. But RAID 10 rebuilds typically don't matter due to insanely high reliability and low impact from rebuilding. Worrying about the time to rebuild is a RAID 5/6 problem. Once you have RAID 10, you normally stop talking about time to rebuild because you can keep using the system just fine while it rebuilds.
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@dustinb3403 said in Port - How to go about setting up a client to be virtualized?:
SBS2008 setup
BURN IT WITH FIREVirtual gives you more options for migration later. It gives you more options for backup and recovery.
