Feedback on Resume
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If I were ever 'IT Director' or something, i'd expect to have lots of remote 'IT Managers' reporting to me worldwide, each with a team of Techies under them... If I were ever called that, but only a sysadmin... yep, i'd lie and call myself sysadmin on resume... otherwise its a lie.
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Where does a Director fall in comparison to an Executive?
Considering I clearly have never experienced the levels of management that Scott has, I have only ever seen directors report to executives, so a director could never fire one, they are lower than executives.
But according to Scott's comments, when he was a director, he was over the top of executives.. so I'm wondering what is the fortune 500 management chain look like from the lowest employee to the CEO/board.
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@dashrender said in Feedback on Resume:
Where does a Director fall in comparison to an Executive?
Considering I clearly have never experienced the levels of management that Scott has, I have only ever seen directors report to executives, so a director could never fire one, they are lower than executives.
But according to Scott's comments, when he was a director, he was over the top of executives.. so I'm wondering what is the fortune 500 management chain look like from the lowest employee to the CEO/board.
I think it depends on the company. Its all bollocks anyway. Our sales people here have a job title of 'Business Executive'... pfft. Nope, they are 'Salesperson'. Why they cant be called that I don't know. Nothing wrong with it, its what they do. They sell. but the business card... yep... 'Executive'.
Is it reasonable to remove job title from a resume? Just company, tenure and what you achieved...
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Getting companies, SMBs, HR, hiring manageers, and IT people to use proper titles based on proper terminology is bit like trying to achieve world peace.
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Although world peace is probably easier since there are only hundreds of world leaders involved. Not millions of personnel and companies that have been set in their ways for years.
Let me ask you this. How often do you see companies that follow the @scottalanmiller guideline for titling positions? 20%, 10%, 5%, 1%, .000001%?
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@irj said in Feedback on Resume:
How often do you see companies that follow the @scottalanmiller guideline for titling positions? 20%, 10%, 5%, 1%, .000001%?
0% in my case
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@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@irj said in Feedback on Resume:
How often do you see companies that follow the @scottalanmiller guideline for titling positions? 20%, 10%, 5%, 1%, .000001%?
0% in my case
Same here
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The titles where I am (at least as far as IT is concerned) don't seem to match the "real world."
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I think it will be interesting to see the responses to my resume though. I'll screenshot any pertinent information.
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@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@irj said in Feedback on Resume:
How often do you see companies that follow the @scottalanmiller guideline for titling positions? 20%, 10%, 5%, 1%, .000001%?
0% in my case
Ditto - but other than the one larger company I worked for, the rest have been SMB.
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@dashrender said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@irj said in Feedback on Resume:
How often do you see companies that follow the @scottalanmiller guideline for titling positions? 20%, 10%, 5%, 1%, .000001%?
0% in my case
Ditto - but other than the one larger company I worked for, the rest have been SMB.
My interest is to get out of the SMB but I'm not sure how clear I made that in this thread honestly. A lot of posts.
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@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@dashrender said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@irj said in Feedback on Resume:
How often do you see companies that follow the @scottalanmiller guideline for titling positions? 20%, 10%, 5%, 1%, .000001%?
0% in my case
Ditto - but other than the one larger company I worked for, the rest have been SMB.
My interest is to get out of the SMB but I'm not sure how clear I made that in this thread honestly. A lot of posts.
This makes me wonder, how many non SMB's are there. There's SMEs and then Enterprises.
I think Scott said SME's start around 2000 employees, enterprise is over 10K employees.
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@eddiejennings said in Feedback on Resume:
This thread has encouraged me to change my title to IT Generalist on Linkedin rather than keep my company-provided title of Network Administrator.
It's not really a good title to use. It's a good description, and it is what all SMB IT people really do. But I would not use it on a resume directly.
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@dashrender said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@dashrender said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@irj said in Feedback on Resume:
How often do you see companies that follow the @scottalanmiller guideline for titling positions? 20%, 10%, 5%, 1%, .000001%?
0% in my case
Ditto - but other than the one larger company I worked for, the rest have been SMB.
My interest is to get out of the SMB but I'm not sure how clear I made that in this thread honestly. A lot of posts.
This makes me wonder, how many non SMB's are there. There's SMEs and then Enterprises.
I think Scott said SME's start around 2000 employees, enterprise is over 10K employees.
I also think he said enterprise is more of a mindset than it is the size of the company
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@jimmy9008 said in Feedback on Resume:
@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
So let me ask you, as director, did you have hundreds or reports? Could you fire any non-executive in the company yourself, without needing approvals from anyone? If not, you'd better not use that term anywhere.
That means there were only 2 directors and everyone else was a manager, which i guess is accurate.
Were they really directors? Even outside of IT it is rare to have a director in the SMB. Most SMBs are smaller than a single department size.
Yep. Seen this often.
I've seen places with multiple directors, and all of them were not directors. No larger than only 20 people in size. One 'Sales Director', who had the actual sales people report straight to them... Not lots of regional sales managers reporting to them... but the actual sale staff. The cold callers... they are not director.
Its just like 'IT Director' - actually no, you just replace the toner and check the server has a green light.
See it so often.
Yes, in the SMB "director" normally means "step between intern and junior". They are always employees, not interns. But it is almost always the junior most position in the company, too junior to get even the title of "junior whatever you actually do." When I see director on a resume, I assume that they are too junior to count as experienced.
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@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
@jimmy9008 said in Feedback on Resume:
@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
@wirestyle22 said in Feedback on Resume:
@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
So let me ask you, as director, did you have hundreds or reports? Could you fire any non-executive in the company yourself, without needing approvals from anyone? If not, you'd better not use that term anywhere.
That means there were only 2 directors and everyone else was a manager, which i guess is accurate.
Were they really directors? Even outside of IT it is rare to have a director in the SMB. Most SMBs are smaller than a single department size.
Yep. Seen this often.
I've seen places with multiple directors, and all of them were not directors. No larger than only 20 people in size. One 'Sales Director', who had the actual sales people report straight to them... Not lots of regional sales managers reporting to them... but the actual sale staff. The cold callers... they are not director.
Its just like 'IT Director' - actually no, you just replace the toner and check the server has a green light.
See it so often.
Yes, in the SMB "director" normally means "step between intern and junior". They are always employees, not interns. But it is almost always the junior most position in the company, too junior to get even the title of "junior whatever you actually do." When I see director on a resume, I assume that they are too junior to count as experienced.
Mostly because people working in and around IT that style themselves as directors almost universally are not just not directors and not managers and not even leads or seniors, but are not actually in IT at all but are IT buyers - just a secretarial like role that managers the relationship with the IT vendors that are the actual IT staff. So I think of it as a junior secretary or purchasing title in most cases.
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@jimmy9008 said in Feedback on Resume:
If I were ever 'IT Director' or something, i'd expect to have lots of remote 'IT Managers' reporting to me worldwide, each with a team of Techies under them... If I were ever called that, but only a sysadmin... yep, i'd lie and call myself sysadmin on resume... otherwise its a lie.
Even in one location it is okay. If you have 200 people in your department, and five managers that report directly to you and 40 people under each of them, and you really are an executive with autonomy over a department... that would be okay to be called director even if just one building.
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@scottalanmiller said in Feedback on Resume:
@jimmy9008 said in Feedback on Resume:
If I were ever 'IT Director' or something, i'd expect to have lots of remote 'IT Managers' reporting to me worldwide, each with a team of Techies under them... If I were ever called that, but only a sysadmin... yep, i'd lie and call myself sysadmin on resume... otherwise its a lie.
Even in one location it is okay. If you have 200 people in your department, and five managers that report directly to you and 40 people under each of them, and you really are an executive with autonomy over a department... that would be okay to be called director even if just one building.
In my case it was 33 buildings, but I do see your point
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@dashrender said in Feedback on Resume:
Where does a Director fall in comparison to an Executive?
In normal business, it is the junior most executive.
In finance it is the senior most. Weird industry twist.
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Normal business does this....
Director -> Managing Director -> AVP -> VP -> SVP -> EVP -> P -> CEO
But finance does this...
AVP -> VP -> SVP -> EVP -> Director -> Managing Director -> P -> CEO
