RAID10 - Two Drive Failure
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Blind Swapping: Generally a unique feature to hardware RAID systems. This is an extension of hot swapping that includes not needing to interact with the operating system first. Hot swapping alone does not imply that a lack of interaction is needed. Blind swapping is popular in large datacenters so that datacenter staff who do not have access to the operating system can replace failed drives without any interaction from the systems administrators.
as per @scottalanmiller
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@coliver said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@JaredBusch said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@scottalanmiller said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@JaredBusch said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@DustinB3403 said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@aaronstuder What raid controller do you have?
Exactly this. A real SMB system should be a hot plug. But we have no idea what you bought.
Even hot plug often requires you to offline a disk before you take it out for the system to be clear as to what is happening. ZFS is hot swap, but still requires that, for example.
I said it already, but hardware controllers in most systems have no interface to the OS in order to do anything. There is no way to offline a drive while running.
Are blind swap and hot swap different? I could have sworn blind swap was the one where you don't offline a drive prior to replacing it.
Very.
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That said, if you have properly set up the tools like Dell OMSA, then you can do it there.
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@wirestyle22 said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
Blind Swapping: Generally a unique feature to hardware RAID systems. This is an extension of hot swapping that includes not needing to interact with the operating system first. Hot swapping alone does not imply that a lack of interaction is needed. Blind swapping is popular in large datacenters so that datacenter staff who do not have access to the operating system can replace failed drives without any interaction from the systems administrators.
as per @scottalanmiller
That's right.
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Isn't there a SMART tool that will scan the drives on the RAID controller and flash the LEDs on ones with errors?
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@dafyre said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
Isn't there a SMART tool that will scan the drives on the RAID controller and flash the LEDs on ones with errors?
No, nothing can see through a RAID controller. If you want to do a SMART scan, the RAID controller itself must do it.
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@scottalanmiller said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@JaredBusch said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@scottalanmiller said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@JaredBusch said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@DustinB3403 said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@aaronstuder What raid controller do you have?
Exactly this. A real SMB system should be a hot plug. But we have no idea what you bought.
Even hot plug often requires you to offline a disk before you take it out for the system to be clear as to what is happening. ZFS is hot swap, but still requires that, for example.
I said it already, but hardware controllers in most systems have no interface to the OS in order to do anything. There is no way to offline a drive while running.
I'm not aware of any that don't have an OS interface available. Lots of people don't install one, but most have one.
That is installing 3rd party software, not an OS interface.
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@scottalanmiller said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@JaredBusch said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@scottalanmiller said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@aaronstuder said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
Drive are 1 and 3 are in "predictive failure" , I am assuming the pairs are 0+1 and 2+3.
Why?
Why what? Assuming? Because he did not document and most hardware RAID controllers are not accessible except during the boot process.
Why does he feel that they are in the sets that they are? I hear people say that all the time, and it turns out that most people say that without basing it on anything at all.
Because by default, when using the PERC controllers from dell, it makes the array that way. Yes, it is horrible to assume that, but it is how the PERC controller does things by default.
@aaronstuder you see the spans in OMSA here.
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@JaredBusch said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@scottalanmiller said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@JaredBusch said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@scottalanmiller said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@JaredBusch said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@DustinB3403 said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@aaronstuder What raid controller do you have?
Exactly this. A real SMB system should be a hot plug. But we have no idea what you bought.
Even hot plug often requires you to offline a disk before you take it out for the system to be clear as to what is happening. ZFS is hot swap, but still requires that, for example.
I said it already, but hardware controllers in most systems have no interface to the OS in order to do anything. There is no way to offline a drive while running.
I'm not aware of any that don't have an OS interface available. Lots of people don't install one, but most have one.
That is installing 3rd party software, not an OS interface.
IF by third party you mean the tools from the vendor, yes. It's basically a driver extension.
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@scottalanmiller said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@JaredBusch said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@scottalanmiller said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@JaredBusch said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@scottalanmiller said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@JaredBusch said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@DustinB3403 said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@aaronstuder What raid controller do you have?
Exactly this. A real SMB system should be a hot plug. But we have no idea what you bought.
Even hot plug often requires you to offline a disk before you take it out for the system to be clear as to what is happening. ZFS is hot swap, but still requires that, for example.
I said it already, but hardware controllers in most systems have no interface to the OS in order to do anything. There is no way to offline a drive while running.
I'm not aware of any that don't have an OS interface available. Lots of people don't install one, but most have one.
That is installing 3rd party software, not an OS interface.
IF by third party you mean the tools from the vendor, yes. It's basically a driver extension.
It is 3rd party to the OS. I clearly stated, many times, that there are no OS tools for this.
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@JaredBusch said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@scottalanmiller said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@JaredBusch said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@scottalanmiller said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@JaredBusch said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@scottalanmiller said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@JaredBusch said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@DustinB3403 said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@aaronstuder What raid controller do you have?
Exactly this. A real SMB system should be a hot plug. But we have no idea what you bought.
Even hot plug often requires you to offline a disk before you take it out for the system to be clear as to what is happening. ZFS is hot swap, but still requires that, for example.
I said it already, but hardware controllers in most systems have no interface to the OS in order to do anything. There is no way to offline a drive while running.
I'm not aware of any that don't have an OS interface available. Lots of people don't install one, but most have one.
That is installing 3rd party software, not an OS interface.
IF by third party you mean the tools from the vendor, yes. It's basically a driver extension.
It is 3rd party to the OS. I clearly stated, many times, that there are no OS tools for this.
You generally get the RAID drivers in the same way, it's third party hardware to the OS. In many cases, though, I think that there are built in tools. Doesn't the Smart Array controllers get management via OS updates on Linux?
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How about answering his question.
If you do not know what the pairs are, don't assume. Replace 1, rinse and repeat. General rule of thumb that is, error on side of caution.
Predictive Failure is just a SMART report saying something doesn't add up on sectors. Order and replace ASAP. -
RAID Controller is a H710
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@aaronstuder said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
RAID Controller is a H710
Definitely blind swap capable.
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@JaredBusch said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@scottalanmiller said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@JaredBusch said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@DustinB3403 said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
@aaronstuder What raid controller do you have?
Exactly this. A real SMB system should be a hot plug. But we have no idea what you bought.
Even hot plug often requires you to offline a disk before you take it out for the system to be clear as to what is happening. ZFS is hot swap, but still requires that, for example.
I said it already, but hardware controllers in most systems have no interface to the OS in order to do anything. There is no way to offline a drive while running.
I'm guessing this is an issue with hypervisors? my older bare metal servers all (HP and IBM - not Lenovo) had utilities that allowed RAID controller management from within the OS. I haven't seen a way to manage then when a hypervisor is in place though.
Anyone know if there is a way, maybe through iLo or iDRAC, etc?
My comments need to be read with the understanding that the OS itself doesn't talk to the RAID controller, but 3rd party drivers do.
That said - the OS doesn't often talk to disks either, they talk via third party drivers.
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@Dashrender said in RAID10 - Two Drive Failure:
I'm guessing this is an issue with hypervisors? my older bare metal servers all (HP and IBM - not Lenovo) had utilities that allowed RAID controller management from within the OS. I haven't seen a way to manage then when a hypervisor is in place though.
Still do, he's saying that that is third party software, is all. Third party to the OS, first party to the controller.
