Managing Hyper-V
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@dbeato said in Managing Hyper-V:
@scottalanmiller Agreed, is like opening VMware or Xenserver over WAN....
Is it? I don't think that it is. Do you feel as confident about RSAT over the WAN as you do about XAPI?
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@brianlittlejohn said in Managing Hyper-V:
@scottalanmiller said in Managing Hyper-V:
@Tim_G said in Managing Hyper-V:
If it's off domain, you have to perform a couple quick extra steps that can be put into a script.
I've never tried to use RSAT over a WAN, seems like a bad idea
I use it over a vpn to our office in OKC... it works a little slow, but it works.
VPN is just another term for the LAN, just a slow portion of it. That's still LAN security as a model, which we don't do here.
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And I believe the intended OP can't either, it's for multiple client locations, I think.
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@scottalanmiller Not in any way!! I meant like opening the ports so you could use Vsphere or XenCenter over WAN...
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@scottalanmiller said in Managing Hyper-V:
@Tim_G said in Managing Hyper-V:
For Hyper-V, if you want to manage a VM via the console, you'd use Hyper-V Manager. You can get it from RSAT, or you can use the built-in one on Win10.
the thing that we like about other platforms is that this is so much more robust. My Scale, for example, is a secure web interface that I can use from anywhere on any machine. No need for special operating systems set up to work. Hyper-V just doesn't have that kind of flexibility here I guess.
Yeah, I don't know why. I guess either it can't be done, or what is already available is sufficient enough to not interest anyone enough to build something else.
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@Tim_G said in Managing Hyper-V:
@scottalanmiller said in Managing Hyper-V:
@Tim_G said in Managing Hyper-V:
For Hyper-V, if you want to manage a VM via the console, you'd use Hyper-V Manager. You can get it from RSAT, or you can use the built-in one on Win10.
the thing that we like about other platforms is that this is so much more robust. My Scale, for example, is a secure web interface that I can use from anywhere on any machine. No need for special operating systems set up to work. Hyper-V just doesn't have that kind of flexibility here I guess.
Yeah, I don't know why. I guess either it can't be done, or what is already available is sufficient enough to not interest anyone enough to build something else.
Or maybe people just are so used to accepting the limitations that they don't think about the power and flexibility that some other platforms have. We are putting Hyper-V into the datacenter right now and it's severely crippled in usability compared to the Scale/KVM sitting in the rack with it. Dramatically so.
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Sure, we can use the Scale to manage Hyper-V, but it's hard to believe that that is the answer for such a giant ecosystem - it needs external support for remote management. XenServer + XenOrchestra, Scale, KVM with different tools, etc. have secure web management interfaces for this stuff so that they can be used in a non-LAN setting natively and easily.
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@scottalanmiller said in Managing Hyper-V:
@Tim_G said in Managing Hyper-V:
@scottalanmiller said in Managing Hyper-V:
@Tim_G said in Managing Hyper-V:
For Hyper-V, if you want to manage a VM via the console, you'd use Hyper-V Manager. You can get it from RSAT, or you can use the built-in one on Win10.
the thing that we like about other platforms is that this is so much more robust. My Scale, for example, is a secure web interface that I can use from anywhere on any machine. No need for special operating systems set up to work. Hyper-V just doesn't have that kind of flexibility here I guess.
Yeah, I don't know why. I guess either it can't be done, or what is already available is sufficient enough to not interest anyone enough to build something else.
Or maybe people just are so used to accepting the limitations that they don't think about the power and flexibility that some other platforms have. We are putting Hyper-V into the datacenter right now and it's severely crippled in usability compared to the Scale/KVM sitting in the rack with it. Dramatically so.
Well, I wouldn't call something crippled because you don't have the right tool for the job. You're just mad because you don't have a Windows computer and now have a need to manage Hyper-V lol ^_^
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I feel like Hyper-V has to be able to do this and people just don't look for it enough. To me this feels like something MS would not have missed or skipped and something obvious is just not being though of.
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@Tim_G LOL I wish I could upvote this at times it sounded so funny hahahah
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But on a serious note, I agree. It is a serious limitation.
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Well, I wouldn't call something crippled because you don't have a right tool for the job. You're just mad because you don't have a Windows computer and now have a need to manage Hyper-V lol ^_^
Even if I had a Windows computer, that wouldn't solve it. And I do, but it requires the Scale cluster. See the issue? If a tool is needed at all, it crippled because no tools are needed for any other hypervisor here. Not tools in that manner, anyway.
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So let me ask it this way... with a datacenter hosted Hyper-V cluster, and no legacy LAN security, how would you manage a Hyper-V system?
Because this is what we have and want and what works beautifully with other products.
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@scottalanmiller said in Managing Hyper-V:
So let me ask it this way... with a datacenter hosted Hyper-V cluster, and no legacy LAN security, how would you manage a Hyper-V system?
Because this is what we have and want and what works beautifully with other products.
If the hosts are running Server GUI (hopefully not), then TeamViewer. But yeah, you got me.
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Does hyper-v has any restful api as first? Otherwise you have to wrap its api into a rest one for https.
Multi-site multi-company centralized management doesn't seems main concern at MS. It is more of an in-company vlaned netscalered env.
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@Tim_G said in Managing Hyper-V:
@scottalanmiller said in Managing Hyper-V:
So let me ask it this way... with a datacenter hosted Hyper-V cluster, and no legacy LAN security, how would you manage a Hyper-V system?
Because this is what we have and want and what works beautifully with other products.
If the hosts are running Server GUI (hopefully not), then TeamViewer. But yeah, you got me.
Okay, I think that there is going to be an answer here, we just need to dig for it. It's just a hunch, but I feel like it must be true. I totally can see MS not making this obvious or talking about it much, but not providing that functionality at all is not like them. This is a pretty huge "how do we replace what we have with Xen or KVM with Hyper-V" kind of question. Things that we easily build with other products seem to be a challenge with Hyper-V. Now 5Nine solves that in a really expensive, really crappy way with their product that really, you could solve just as easily using Hyper-V manager I think. So if you have a separate device to manage the cluster sitting local to it, and you can RDP safely into that remotely, that works. But that's a lot of infrastructure and if you don't want a SPOF, it's even more.
I know that this is a big selling point of the Scales, that you get triple redundant, or more, secure web remote management plus no open port remote assistance all automatic and out of the box and that almost no one else offers that. So I totally understand that I'm coming from a unique starting point as that is what we use today. I don't expect Hyper-V to compete with the Scale at that level, it's just not the same level of system. But I'm pretty sure it's not falling as far short of it as we are seeing. My guess is that there is a good PowerShell method to do this that just has to be figured out. Once ours is up, I'll be playing with it.
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Maybe this is just me having too much faith in MS, but I have to say, I never do that and not have it come true. Sometimes it's just being able to overcome the doubt and believe in them and ta da, an answer gets found because they really do think these things through
There is a lot at MS I don't like, but they tend to be pretty good at this kind of stuff. -
@scottalanmiller said in Managing Hyper-V:
@Tim_G said in Managing Hyper-V:
@scottalanmiller said in Managing Hyper-V:
So let me ask it this way... with a datacenter hosted Hyper-V cluster, and no legacy LAN security, how would you manage a Hyper-V system?
Because this is what we have and want and what works beautifully with other products.
If the hosts are running Server GUI (hopefully not), then TeamViewer. But yeah, you got me.
Okay, I think that there is going to be an answer here, we just need to dig for it. It's just a hunch, but I feel like it must be true. I totally can see MS not making this obvious or talking about it much, but not providing that functionality at all is not like them. This is a pretty huge "how do we replace what we have with Xen or KVM with Hyper-V" kind of question. Things that we easily build with other products seem to be a challenge with Hyper-V. Now 5Nine solves that in a really expensive, really crappy way with their product that really, you could solve just as easily using Hyper-V manager I think. So if you have a separate device to manage the cluster sitting local to it, and you can RDP safely into that remotely, that works. But that's a lot of infrastructure and if you don't want a SPOF, it's even more.
I know that this is a big selling point of the Scales, that you get triple redundant, or more, secure web remote management plus no open port remote assistance all automatic and out of the box and that almost no one else offers that. So I totally understand that I'm coming from a unique starting point as that is what we use today. I don't expect Hyper-V to compete with the Scale at that level, it's just not the same level of system. But I'm pretty sure it's not falling as far short of it as we are seeing. My guess is that there is a good PowerShell method to do this that just has to be figured out. Once ours is up, I'll be playing with it.
I've not come across a need to do it in that way. But I agree there's got to be a way.
What about via IPv6? Just a shot from the hip.
Or, what about SolarWinds? I haven't looked at that part of it.
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@Tim_G said in Managing Hyper-V:
@scottalanmiller said in Managing Hyper-V:
@Tim_G said in Managing Hyper-V:
@scottalanmiller said in Managing Hyper-V:
So let me ask it this way... with a datacenter hosted Hyper-V cluster, and no legacy LAN security, how would you manage a Hyper-V system?
Because this is what we have and want and what works beautifully with other products.
If the hosts are running Server GUI (hopefully not), then TeamViewer. But yeah, you got me.
Okay, I think that there is going to be an answer here, we just need to dig for it. It's just a hunch, but I feel like it must be true. I totally can see MS not making this obvious or talking about it much, but not providing that functionality at all is not like them. This is a pretty huge "how do we replace what we have with Xen or KVM with Hyper-V" kind of question. Things that we easily build with other products seem to be a challenge with Hyper-V. Now 5Nine solves that in a really expensive, really crappy way with their product that really, you could solve just as easily using Hyper-V manager I think. So if you have a separate device to manage the cluster sitting local to it, and you can RDP safely into that remotely, that works. But that's a lot of infrastructure and if you don't want a SPOF, it's even more.
I know that this is a big selling point of the Scales, that you get triple redundant, or more, secure web remote management plus no open port remote assistance all automatic and out of the box and that almost no one else offers that. So I totally understand that I'm coming from a unique starting point as that is what we use today. I don't expect Hyper-V to compete with the Scale at that level, it's just not the same level of system. But I'm pretty sure it's not falling as far short of it as we are seeing. My guess is that there is a good PowerShell method to do this that just has to be figured out. Once ours is up, I'll be playing with it.
I've not come across a need to do it in that way. But I agree there's got to be a way.
What about via IPv6? Just a shot from the hip.
Or, what about SolarWinds? I haven't looked at that part of it.
I'm sure someone makes a third party tool to do this. I'm really hopeful that there is a native one. I'm 100% cool with CLI only management, but that doesn't work for the VM install step, though. Not that I know of, anyway.
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@scottalanmiller you already posted along to this answer.l back in the beginning of the thread.
At lileast that is how that link read to me.
