Windows 8.x - Defender or other AV?
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@scottalanmiller said:
Defender is often all that you need. There are a lot of haters but it is an adequate AV in 8+.
If you go with InTune or other MS option it is just Defender with a management console.
Most other AV will disable Defender as needed.
I still stand behind that, for the average person, Defender is not adequate. Even for the average IT person, spend the little bit of $$ on a decent AV product.
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@ajstringham said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Defender is often all that you need. There are a lot of haters but it is an adequate AV in 8+.
If you go with InTune or other MS option it is just Defender with a management console.
Most other AV will disable Defender as needed.
I still stand behind that, for the average person, Defender is not adequate. Even for the average IT person, spend the little bit of $$ on a decent AV product.
Why, please defend said position.
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@Dashrender said:
@ajstringham said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Defender is often all that you need. There are a lot of haters but it is an adequate AV in 8+.
If you go with InTune or other MS option it is just Defender with a management console.
Most other AV will disable Defender as needed.
I still stand behind that, for the average person, Defender is not adequate. Even for the average IT person, spend the little bit of $$ on a decent AV product.
Why, please defend said position.
When I worked retail, I saw tons of people who came in running AVG and MSE, in addition to Defender near the end of my tenure, for their AV who were infected. Now I know no AV is perfect. However, that being said, people who felt that what Microsoft put out was plenty adequate or used AVG were always the ones in trouble. I never saw anyone with Avast Free! get a virus. I worked on hundreds of machines as well. It was almost always a Windows Defender or MSE machine that had viruses. Waste Strategies, who uses MSE, has often had issues with viruses on a lot of user machines. I saw it all the time working on setting them up with Pertino. MSE is, even by Microsoft's own admission, not adequate. Defender is no better. Now, in a domain environment, when you're using it to lock down a machine's ports, etc, IN ADDITION to Webroot, Sophos, Vipre, etc. then it's good. But that's it.
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You saw people at Staples who ran Windows 8 with Defender as non-admins? If not, not valid and completely misleading.
People who go to Staples for support are not a useful diagnostic group.
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I've used Defenderfor years back when it was first called Windows Live OneCare. Has always worked great for me...never an intrusion, always quite and out of the way...
But yes, at work, I do use a "suite" and just by installing it, it disables Defender...
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@scottalanmiller said:
You saw people at Staples who ran Windows 8 with Defender as non-admins? If not, not valid and completely misleading.
People who go to Staples for support are not a useful diagnostic group.
Well, they are, but only from a home user perspective. Certainly not useful for business environment that did as you suggest, run as non-admin.
That said, I really have a hard time believing that MSE and AVG had more infections than the rest. Primarily because those paid products almost all include, included antiviral support in case you get infected. Of course free products don't include that.
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@garak0410 said:
But yes, at work, I do use a "suite" and just by installing it, it disables Defender...
How do you know it's disabled?
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@garak0410 said:
I've used Defender for years back when it was first called Windows Live OneCare. Has always worked great for me...never an intrusion, always quite and out of the way...
I did the same on my personal machines without ever an issue (when I did get one, I knew it was my fault).
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
You saw people at Staples who ran Windows 8 with Defender as non-admins? If not, not valid and completely misleading.
People who go to Staples for support are not a useful diagnostic group.
Well, they are, but only from a home user perspective. Certainly not useful for business environment that did as you suggest, run as non-admin.
That said, I really have a hard time believing that MSE and AVG had more infections than the rest. Primarily because those paid products almost all include, included antiviral support in case you get infected. Of course free products don't include that.
Most products DON'T include support for infections with their product. Some do but most don't. Like I said, Defender in a business, domain environment might be better. For home though, I'd never, EVER use it solely.
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@Dashrender said:
@garak0410 said:
But yes, at work, I do use a "suite" and just by installing it, it disables Defender...
How do you know it's disabled?
I simply try to run Defender after installing our "suite" and it shows this:
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@ajstringham said:
MSE is, even by Microsoft's own admission, not adequate.
This is not true. I really wish people would stop saying it. The statement by a MS Rep was that MSE should be considered a baseline that is the minimal that any AV company should shoot for.
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@Dashrender said:
@ajstringham said:
MSE is, even by Microsoft's own admission, not adequate.
This is not true. I really wish people would stop saying it. The statement by a MS Rep was that MSE should be considered a baseline that is the minimal that any AV company should shoot for.
Reading that, it tells me they are saying "we're the bottom of the barrel, just barely good enough". I disagree. MSE is not good.
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We know you disagree. But other than misleading use cases, outdated statements of a former product or a religious conviction against the product - why is it bad? Every argument against it relies on non-applicable data to make its case.
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I've never heard a current, rational argument for why Defender isn't good enough. I think this is one if those products that is plagued by poor marketing that left it open to the irrational sectarianism that happens in IT.
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@scottalanmiller said:
I've never heard a current, rational argument for why Defender isn't good enough. I think this is one if those products that is plagued by poor marketing that left it open to the irrational sectarianism that happens in IT.
Thanks I was looking for some way to say that, and all I could come up with was some comparison about how the non best product (possibly lowest baseline) is still widely excepted and used in a lot of cases (look at cheap cars).
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That said, I still hold my irrational bias against AMD CPUs.
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I have used Defender for both my client's personal and business PCs using W8.x.
I also used Live Care and personally have followed the Microsoft Anti-spyware/Defender product since beta. The only malware my family and I ever got was while running as Admin or stupidly clicking on phishing attempts or "borrowing music" from file sharing services.
Personally I offer Vipre with GFI Max for businesses and make them run as standard users. I supplement both Vipre and Defender with Malwarebytes Pro for those who run as Admins which are residential and hard to deal with micro businesses.
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@technobabble said:
I have used Defender for both my client's personal and business PCs using W8.x.
I also used Live Care and personally have followed the Microsoft Anti-spyware/Defender product since beta. The only malware my family and I ever got was while running as Admin or stupidly clicking on phishing attempts or "borrowing music" from file sharing services.
Personally I offer Vipre with GFI Max for businesses and make them run as standard users. I supplement both Vipre and Defender with Malwarebytes Pro for those who run as Admins which are residential and hard to deal with micro businesses.
Love MBAM Pro. I was able to get a lifetime license for $15 around two years ago. LOVE IT!
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Now it is $25/year.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Now it is $25/year.
It was that price then. I got it on sale on Newegg. Daily Deal FTW!
