Sunk Cost Fallacy?
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@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix
I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.
DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
muteThose three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.
Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.
Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.
we don't need an actual button for intercom, just pickup the phone and dial and extension - intercom just works (I'm not really sure why my phone has a button for it)
*Edit - I know why - If you put the call on hold, it's how you pick it back up.
Oh okay, that's a PBX feature and can easily handle that stuff for a number of the features. If a quick code is good enough, the $75 phones are back in play. Not saying that they are right, just that they are affordable and my dad uses it
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@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix
I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.
DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
muteThose three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.
Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.
Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.
Intercom is the only one that stands out. That was available but as a soft button.
Oh sure, it can always be available somehow. Just saying it's unlikely to come up as a pre-determined hard button.
So if you put it on hold... how do you pick it backup if there's no hard button?
Soft button. Works the same just doesn't have a permanent ink icon on it
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@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix
I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.
DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
muteThose three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.
Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.
Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.
Intercom is the only one that stands out. That was available but as a soft button.
Oh sure, it can always be available somehow. Just saying it's unlikely to come up as a pre-determined hard button.
So if you put it on hold... how do you pick it backup if there's no hard button?
What do you mean? It would be placed on hold as one of the "lines".
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@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix
I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.
DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
muteThose three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.
Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.
Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.
Intercom is the only one that stands out. That was available but as a soft button.
Oh sure, it can always be available somehow. Just saying it's unlikely to come up as a pre-determined hard button.
So if you put it on hold... how do you pick it backup if there's no hard button?
Hold is normally a hard button, though. It's intercom that is rare.
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Sadly, while I like a full revamp more, I think that sticking with the Mitel is going to be the sensible answer in the end. The sunk cost creates an existing (current) value that is hard to overcome. BUT, I would have testing and a plan in place to not replace it when that time comes. It's that the current Mitel still works, or mostly works, that creates the current value that ripping and replacing probably can't overcome.
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@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix
I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.
DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
muteThose three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.
Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.
Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.
we don't need an actual button for intercom, just pickup the phone and dial and extension - intercom just works (I'm not really sure why my phone has a button for it)
*Edit - I know why - If you put the call on hold, it's how you pick it back up.
Oh okay, that's a PBX feature and can easily handle that stuff for a number of the features. If a quick code is good enough, the $75 phones are back in play. Not saying that they are right, just that they are affordable and my dad uses it
Right, so even if they are in play, the cost is still significantly higher, 70% higher, than option2, and it would require significant training of our users.
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This is one of those situations, I suspect, where the real business need and the "thing that seems great to IT" probably won't line up. The Mitels are "good enough" and so much cheaper (because they are already paid for) that moving to something else just can't be justified given the other needs (not all using softphones, lacking cabling for the phones and so forth.)
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@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix
I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.
DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
muteThose three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.
Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.
Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.
Intercom is the only one that stands out. That was available but as a soft button.
Oh sure, it can always be available somehow. Just saying it's unlikely to come up as a pre-determined hard button.
So if you put it on hold... how do you pick it backup if there's no hard button?
Soft button. Works the same just doesn't have a permanent ink icon on it
awww.
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@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix
I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.
DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
muteThose three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.
Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.
Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.
Intercom is the only one that stands out. That was available but as a soft button.
Oh sure, it can always be available somehow. Just saying it's unlikely to come up as a pre-determined hard button.
So if you put it on hold... how do you pick it backup if there's no hard button?
Soft button. Works the same just doesn't have a permanent ink icon on it
awww.
But, like many end users, we like it when we have nice icons.
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@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@coliver said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix
I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.
DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
muteThose three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.
Odd, the cheap Yealink phones I deployed had all of these available as hard buttons, or soft context aware buttons.
Yeah, pretty standard there. At least for the majority. Intercom is not a standard one on any of mine that I remember.
Intercom is the only one that stands out. That was available but as a soft button.
Oh sure, it can always be available somehow. Just saying it's unlikely to come up as a pre-determined hard button.
So if you put it on hold... how do you pick it backup if there's no hard button?
What do you mean? It would be placed on hold as one of the "lines".
In the soft button world, this makes sense. I'm not used to thinking that way.
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@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
Sadly, while I like a full revamp more, I think that sticking with the Mitel is going to be the sensible answer in the end. The sunk cost creates an existing (current) value that is hard to overcome. BUT, I would have testing and a plan in place to not replace it when that time comes. It's that the current Mitel still works, or mostly works, that creates the current value that ripping and replacing probably can't overcome.
I'm almost flabbergasted, but I actually reached this conclusion before making this thread.
Scott's pointing out of possibly using even cheaper phones than ones JB and I discussed though did bring the possibility that a conversion was viable.
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@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
This is one of those situations, I suspect, where the real business need and the "thing that seems great to IT" probably won't line up. The Mitels are "good enough" and so much cheaper (because they are already paid for) that moving to something else just can't be justified given the other needs (not all using softphones, lacking cabling for the phones and so forth.)
I almost consider myself lucky, because only 10 phones would actually need new cabling. There is already a network jack at the rest of the locations, so the PCs would just hang off the phone. Which is why I want to move to Gb based phones.
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@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
Sadly, while I like a full revamp more, I think that sticking with the Mitel is going to be the sensible answer in the end. The sunk cost creates an existing (current) value that is hard to overcome. BUT, I would have testing and a plan in place to not replace it when that time comes. It's that the current Mitel still works, or mostly works, that creates the current value that ripping and replacing probably can't overcome.
I'm almost flabbergasted, but I actually reached this conclusion before making this thread.
Scott's pointing out of possibly using even cheaper phones than ones JB and I discussed though did bring the possibility that a conversion was viable.
Oh, I think that it is viable. But best option? I think is sadly, unlikely.
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@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
This is one of those situations, I suspect, where the real business need and the "thing that seems great to IT" probably won't line up. The Mitels are "good enough" and so much cheaper (because they are already paid for) that moving to something else just can't be justified given the other needs (not all using softphones, lacking cabling for the phones and so forth.)
I almost consider myself lucky, because only 10 phones would actually need new cabling. There is already a network jack at the rest of the locations, so the PCs would just hang off the phone. Which is why I want to move to Gb based phones.
Makes sense.
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@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
Sadly, while I like a full revamp more, I think that sticking with the Mitel is going to be the sensible answer in the end. The sunk cost creates an existing (current) value that is hard to overcome. BUT, I would have testing and a plan in place to not replace it when that time comes. It's that the current Mitel still works, or mostly works, that creates the current value that ripping and replacing probably can't overcome.
I'm almost flabbergasted, but I actually reached this conclusion before making this thread.
Scott's pointing out of possibly using even cheaper phones than ones JB and I discussed though did bring the possibility that a conversion was viable.
Oh, I think that it is viable. But best option? I think is sadly, unlikely.
I guess Viable was the wrong word - of course FreePBX was always viable, but the lower cost of the handsets you suggest made it more likely to be financially in the realm.
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@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
Also, it's never passthrough, it's a two port switch. Important at a networking level, switched Ethernet can't passthrough.
Yes, we all know that, but the vernacular term is passthrough.
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@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
This is one of those situations, I suspect, where the real business need and the "thing that seems great to IT" probably won't line up. The Mitels are "good enough" and so much cheaper (because they are already paid for) that moving to something else just can't be justified given the other needs (not all using softphones, lacking cabling for the phones and so forth.)
I almost consider myself lucky, because only 10 phones would actually need new cabling. There is already a network jack at the rest of the locations, so the PCs would just hang off the phone. Which is why I want to move to Gb based phones.
The phone I would recommend first for normal people is the Yealink T42G/S. That phone is $105 with gigabit.
It has 6 keys available on the screen, or 3 pages of 5 keys.
I specifically would not recommend it for @Dashrender's situation due to the expected need for keys to be setup with extra features to replicate his existing functionality without making users learn to use feature codes.
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@Dashrender said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
@scottalanmiller said in Sunk Cost Fallacy?:
scroll to do it? This isn't something I'd imagine a professional needing to do very often, so I'm struggling to figure out what to fix
I Already listed the buttons needed, but here they are again, and this doesn't include any quick dial extension buttons.
DND
call forwarding
voice mail
transfer
on hold
3 calling lines
intercom
conferencing
muteThose three line displays have 6 buttons on them, normally two of them are for previous/next page, so that leaves 4 buttons per display.
DND is built in as a soft key on Yealink. But it has issues that need tested due to local DND on the phone versus PBX DND for this specific install.
Hold, Call transfer, and forward are in the soft keys when a call is active. Hold has to be disabled for this scenario, because hold is local to the phone making calls inaccessible from another extension.
3 call lines will take up 3 of the programmable buttons.
Mute is a hard key
Intercom is a feature code and can be put on a programmable button.
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To continue on with some specifics for @Dashrender or anyone else, this is the LCD of a T42G/S
The Line/DSS keys are able to be set to a number of things. The limit for this model is 15 keys. 3 pages of 5 keys. If you only use the first 6, then the right bottom DSS button shows key 6 instead of the 1-2-3. For @Dashrender's scenario, he wants 3 of the DSS to be line keys, but I htink that is form a lack of understanding how a line works on a SIP based PBX.
Generally I always set 2 line keys because user cannot handle more than two calls at once anyway. If a user needs to put a call on hold, I disable the hold function on the phone and instead tell people to park calls. so the need for active lines to a specific phone are lower. A parked call is in control of the PBX.
Generally, you want to configure each person's phone to show the keys they normally use the most on the same screen. If the person is always transferring calls to Bob, add a BLF for Bob. If they are always parking and picking up parked calls, add parks and put the BLF on page 2. Finally, on page 3 add the line keys because no one ever needs to use them to make or answer calls.
The DSS keys never change unless reprogrammed.
On the other hand, the 4 programmable soft keys change based on what the phone is doing at the moment.
In this shot, you can see I have set up key 1 to bring up the local # directory that is stored in the phone. key 2 is set to bring up a remote phone book of common numbers, hence the name shared #. by default key 3 is DND and key 4 is menu. Again these keys can be changed to many different things, but you need to be aware that they are not always going to show the same.
Here is what they look like, by default, on a call.
Finally, the hard keys limited to 5. Mute, Headset, Voicemail, redial, speaker phone.
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maybe that post should be it's own thread. /shrug. it is less about the sunk cost and more about phone functionality.
