Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars
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@DustinB3403 said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
And how would Telsa be able to tell, and more importantly how could they enforce / make such a restriction?
What do you mean? What is there to question? It's in the EULA.
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@scottalanmiller said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
@DustinB3403 said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
And how would Telsa be able to tell, and more importantly how could they enforce / make such a restriction?
What do you mean? What is there to question? It's in the EULA.
That's not going to survive the lawsuit
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@Nic said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
@scottalanmiller said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
@DustinB3403 said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
And how would Telsa be able to tell, and more importantly how could they enforce / make such a restriction?
What do you mean? What is there to question? It's in the EULA.
That's not going to survive the lawsuit
If it doesn't, it will totally undermine all EULAs. Every software company like Apple, Microsoft, Google, Oracle, etc. has EULAs and entire business models that depend on that having been legally tested. Tesla's software is no different than those. You can use the physical car for ride sharing, just not the special case driving software that you have to agree to the EULA to use.
I guarantee it'll survive.
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@scottalanmiller said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
@DustinB3403 said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
And how would Telsa be able to tell, and more importantly how could they enforce / make such a restriction?
What do you mean? What is there to question? It's in the EULA.
I bought the car, it is my property. I will do with it what I want.
Just like if I bought a chevy volt I can use that as a Uber car if I chose. Tesla can eat a fat one with that sort of rule.
Of course... how many people will purchase a tesla for this. . . .
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@scottalanmiller said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
@Nic said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
@scottalanmiller said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
@DustinB3403 said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
And how would Telsa be able to tell, and more importantly how could they enforce / make such a restriction?
What do you mean? What is there to question? It's in the EULA.
That's not going to survive the lawsuit
If it doesn't, it will totally undermine all EULAs. Every software company like Apple, Microsoft, Google, Oracle, etc. has EULAs and entire business models that depend on that having been legally tested. Tesla's software is no different than those. You can use the physical car for ride sharing, just not the special case driving software that you have to agree to the EULA to use.
I guarantee it'll survive.
No, what will happen is that Tesla will back down and remove that provision once they realize that they don't want to take it to trial and invalidate all EULAs. That's what I'm betting on
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@Nic said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
@scottalanmiller said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
@Nic said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
@scottalanmiller said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
@DustinB3403 said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
And how would Telsa be able to tell, and more importantly how could they enforce / make such a restriction?
What do you mean? What is there to question? It's in the EULA.
That's not going to survive the lawsuit
If it doesn't, it will totally undermine all EULAs. Every software company like Apple, Microsoft, Google, Oracle, etc. has EULAs and entire business models that depend on that having been legally tested. Tesla's software is no different than those. You can use the physical car for ride sharing, just not the special case driving software that you have to agree to the EULA to use.
I guarantee it'll survive.
No, what will happen is that Tesla will back down and remove that provision once they realize that they don't want to take it to trial and invalidate all EULAs. That's what I'm betting on
Tesla doesn't have the "all EULAs" incentive there. They have no reason to back down, they have history and the law on their side. I don't see any reasonable chance that they would fear losing a lawsuit and no incentive to not pursue it.
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@DustinB3403 said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
@scottalanmiller said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
@DustinB3403 said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
And how would Telsa be able to tell, and more importantly how could they enforce / make such a restriction?
What do you mean? What is there to question? It's in the EULA.
I bought the car, it is my property. I will do with it what I want.
Tell that to Microsoft.
Remember you bought the car but you licensed the self driving software. You do NOT own it. So you are just stating standard software piracy here.
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@DustinB3403 said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
Just like if I bought a chevy volt I can use that as a Uber car if I chose.
Tesla didn't say anything about not being allowed to do that. Of course you can do that, just like a Chevy Volt.
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@DustinB3403 said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
Of course... how many people will purchase a tesla for this. . . .
Tons, because it's an amazing idea. That's why they limited it immediately from the start. They are planning to build the most amazing fleet of Uber-like vehicles but safer, faster and probably cheaper.
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@scottalanmiller said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
@DustinB3403 said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
@scottalanmiller said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
@DustinB3403 said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
And how would Telsa be able to tell, and more importantly how could they enforce / make such a restriction?
What do you mean? What is there to question? It's in the EULA.
I bought the car, it is my property. I will do with it what I want.
Tell that to Microsoft.
Remember you bought the car but you licensed the self driving software. You do NOT own it. So you are just stating standard software piracy here.
Are you sure its software piracy, I'd see it as using the car and software for what I want.
Which maybe I want to sit in my car and have it drive around all day long, with random guests in the car from time to time.
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@DustinB3403 said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
Remember you bought the car but you licensed the self driving software. You do NOT own it. So you are just stating standard software piracy here.
Are you sure its software piracy, I'd see it as using the car and software for what I want.
Yes, 100% sure. So you work in IT and think that you can say this? You think that you bought a PC so you can use Windows for "anything that you want?" You dont' think that you need to license Windows just because you bought a computer? Think again.
What you are describing is by the book software piracy and simple as it gets.
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@DustinB3403 said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
Which maybe I want to sit in my car and have it drive around all day long, with random guests in the car from time to time.
Then you shouldn't have agreed to license software that isn't available to do that. You made a legal commitment to not do that, doing so with the intention of breaking that agreement is bad faith and goes beyond piracy, which can be accidental.
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Remember, you always have the right to write your own self driving code and use that on the car instead. No one is forcing you to use Tesla's self driving software. That you want to use it for something you haven't licensed it for is not their problem. EULAs work, they always have. This is battle tested stuff. This is as standard as it gets in IT. This is what every Microsoft licensing discussion is about.
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@scottalanmiller said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
@DustinB3403 said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
Remember you bought the car but you licensed the self driving software. You do NOT own it. So you are just stating standard software piracy here.
Are you sure its software piracy, I'd see it as using the car and software for what I want.
Yes, 100% sure. So you work in IT and think that you can say this? You think that you bought a PC so you can use Windows for "anything that you want?" You dont' think that you need to license Windows just because you bought a computer? Think again.
What you are describing is by the book software piracy and simple as it gets.
Two separate arguments here.
If I buy a PC I don't have to buy windows. I can purchase windows, and the licensing to match what I want to do with that software. Yet I can still do whatever with the hardware.
Its software specifically that I'm buying from Tesla. Now I understand the EULA, totally do. Good faith is absolutely something to be followed.
With Tesla, you are buying hardware, is there a choice to not purchase the software? Probably not. Restricting the use of hardware because of software that comes default of it seems insane.
My concern here is what does Tesla plan to do with people who break the EULA, turn off the expensive car?
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Now we need this for the Prius in CA. Most Prius owners in CA can't drive properly.
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@wrx7m said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
Now we need this for the
Priussmugmobiles in CA.MostallPriussmugmobile ownersin CAeverywhere can't drive properly.FTFY
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@RojoLoco said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
@wrx7m said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
Now we need this for the
Priussmugmobiles in CA.MostallPriussmugmobile ownersin CAeverywhere can't drive properly.FTFY
Sadly, I believe there are more in CA than any other state.
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@DustinB3403 said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
If I buy a PC I don't have to buy windows. I can purchase windows, and the licensing to match what I want to do with that software. Yet I can still do whatever with the hardware.
And if you buy a car, you don't have to buy a Tesla or license their self driving functionality. How is it different?
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@DustinB3403 said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
With Tesla, you are buying hardware, is there a choice to not purchase the software? Probably not. Restricting the use of hardware because of software that comes default of it seems insane.
Unless you can say that there no PC, anywhere, that doesn't come with either Windows or Mac, then you've made my point. Not just some, but MOST computers sold come with software as part of the package and no option to not include it. Whether that is your iPhone, MacBook or the vast majority of Windows desktops and laptops... they come with the software and you are bound by the EULA.
So the Tesla isn't "kind of" like the PC market. It is literally identical in every way.
There is zero restriction on the use of the hardware, as I explained. The EULA only restricts the use of the licensed software component. So again, identical to your desktop PC. Like with your desktop, you can replace the Tesla software with your own or Windows with Linux. No restrictions once you do that.
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@DustinB3403 said in Tesla Announces Self Driving Cars:
My concern here is what does Tesla plan to do with people who break the EULA, turn off the expensive car?
Disable the software feature and take them to court most likely. Just like any software piracy situation.
