Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!
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@scottalanmiller said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@scottalanmiller said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
Heck, why doesn't MS offer it's own backup solution? Granted no one might trust it since it would all be in the same family.
Ding ding ding. Your stuff is already backed up and legal hold is offered. If you are looking for more backup, it's because you don't trust the single vendor not because the service is lacking.
Does legal hold work with SharePoint as well?
No, legal hold is an Exchange / email concept.
How much is Legal Hold? I thought it was like $2/u/m or more
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@BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
Yeah, @scottalanmiller and I had it out the other day about this whole topic. He was able to basically cover every scenario I came up with.
EXCEPT: someone hacking your admin account. But, if they hack your admin account anywhere you are in for some serious trouble. His thought is that if they have access to that, they could just delete the backups.
I'm not so certain about this, if the backup was separate.
If the backup is tape or unattached HDD, then those would be safe.
If they are online, and they have access to your O365 account admin logon - chances are they have been watching you long enough to have all the admin level logons, and will just ruin anything you have online.
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@scottalanmiller said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@scottalanmiller said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
Heck, why doesn't MS offer it's own backup solution? Granted no one might trust it since it would all be in the same family.
Ding ding ding. Your stuff is already backed up and legal hold is offered. If you are looking for more backup, it's because you don't trust the single vendor not because the service is lacking.
Does legal hold work with SharePoint as well?
No, legal hold is an Exchange / email concept.
How do you resolve this issue with regards to ODfB and SharePoint?
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@Dashrender said
How do you resolve this issue with regards to ODfB and SharePoint?
Me? I consider it unresolved.
Scott? Considers having just the files there with no backup other than the MS backup as safe as anything else.
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@BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
Yeah, @scottalanmiller and I had it out the other day about this whole topic. He was able to basically cover every scenario I came up with.
EXCEPT: someone hacking your admin account. But, if they hack your admin account anywhere you are in for some serious trouble. His thought is that if they have access to that, they could just delete the backups.
I'm not so certain about this, if the backup was separate.
Right. The backup has to be off-network to be safe.
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@art_of_shred said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
Yeah, @scottalanmiller and I had it out the other day about this whole topic. He was able to basically cover every scenario I came up with.
EXCEPT: someone hacking your admin account. But, if they hack your admin account anywhere you are in for some serious trouble. His thought is that if they have access to that, they could just delete the backups.
I'm not so certain about this, if the backup was separate.
Right. The backup has to be off-network to be safe.
So do you agree with Bill's stated version of @scottalanmiller opinion that ODfB and Sharepoint don't require any extra backups? Be the online or off?
Let's split this into two versions:
a) locally synced to user's endpoint device
b) never synced, online use, API use only -
@Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@art_of_shred said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
Yeah, @scottalanmiller and I had it out the other day about this whole topic. He was able to basically cover every scenario I came up with.
EXCEPT: someone hacking your admin account. But, if they hack your admin account anywhere you are in for some serious trouble. His thought is that if they have access to that, they could just delete the backups.
I'm not so certain about this, if the backup was separate.
Right. The backup has to be off-network to be safe.
So do you agree with Bill's stated version of @scottalanmiller opinion that ODfB and Sharepoint don't require any extra backups? Be the online or off?
Let's split this into two versions:
a) locally synced to user's endpoint device
b) never synced, online use, API use onlyActually it doesn't even matter because if they are deleted in b) they are also deleted locally.
You could say "well, you should backup your local copy elsewhere", but then that is a third party backup which @scottalanmiller is saying is not needed.
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@BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@art_of_shred said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
Yeah, @scottalanmiller and I had it out the other day about this whole topic. He was able to basically cover every scenario I came up with.
EXCEPT: someone hacking your admin account. But, if they hack your admin account anywhere you are in for some serious trouble. His thought is that if they have access to that, they could just delete the backups.
I'm not so certain about this, if the backup was separate.
Right. The backup has to be off-network to be safe.
So do you agree with Bill's stated version of @scottalanmiller opinion that ODfB and Sharepoint don't require any extra backups? Be the online or off?
Let's split this into two versions:
a) locally synced to user's endpoint device
b) never synced, online use, API use onlyActually it doesn't even matter because if they are deleted in b) they are also deleted locally.
You could say "well, you should backup your local copy elsewhere", but then that is a third party backup which @scottalanmiller is saying is not needed.
No, these scenarios have more than just ^ see Bill's comment above.
a suffers an indirect attack through something like crypto malware. B does't suffer these types of attack at all.
So, if A is required, you need to have a solution that takes that into consideration. I don't know how you have a syncing client solution and don't have a full blown backup solution in place. It doesn't need to be full blown offline (i.e. disconnected USB/Tape, etc) but it needs to be completely external to the service being backed up.
You can be worried about A and not worried about B. If you use something like 2FA for B type access, then it's pretty unlikely you have external sources to be concerned about. But employee error is still something you have to worry about.
@scottalanmiller how do you mitigate the employee error for situation B?
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@BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@art_of_shred said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
Yeah, @scottalanmiller and I had it out the other day about this whole topic. He was able to basically cover every scenario I came up with.
EXCEPT: someone hacking your admin account. But, if they hack your admin account anywhere you are in for some serious trouble. His thought is that if they have access to that, they could just delete the backups.
I'm not so certain about this, if the backup was separate.
Right. The backup has to be off-network to be safe.
So do you agree with Bill's stated version of @scottalanmiller opinion that ODfB and Sharepoint don't require any extra backups? Be the online or off?
Let's split this into two versions:
a) locally synced to user's endpoint device
b) never synced, online use, API use onlyActually it doesn't even matter because if they are deleted in b) they are also deleted locally.
You could say "well, you should backup your local copy elsewhere", but then that is a third party backup which @scottalanmiller is saying is not needed.
Sorry, I meant to say a) here
In my response.
If the cloud version is deleted, so is the local version.
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@BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@Dashrender said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@art_of_shred said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
Yeah, @scottalanmiller and I had it out the other day about this whole topic. He was able to basically cover every scenario I came up with.
EXCEPT: someone hacking your admin account. But, if they hack your admin account anywhere you are in for some serious trouble. His thought is that if they have access to that, they could just delete the backups.
I'm not so certain about this, if the backup was separate.
Right. The backup has to be off-network to be safe.
So do you agree with Bill's stated version of @scottalanmiller opinion that ODfB and Sharepoint don't require any extra backups? Be the online or off?
Let's split this into two versions:
a) locally synced to user's endpoint device
b) never synced, online use, API use onlyActually it doesn't even matter because if they are deleted in b) they are also deleted locally.
You could say "well, you should backup your local copy elsewhere", but then that is a third party backup which @scottalanmiller is saying is not needed.
Sorry, I meant to say a) here
In my response.
If the cloud version is deleted, so is the local version.
Absolutely - so I guess you're comment about that was that there should be a backup -uhhh.. yeah I agree with you, even though I guess others don't?
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@Dashrender said
Absolutely - so I guess you're comment about that was that there should be a backup -uhhh.. yeah I agree with you, even though I guess others don't?
Well, again that has to be quantified. @scottalanmiller contends that ODfB and SharePoint are fully backed up by Microsoft, and there is no need for additional backups.
I do not agree with that, and feel there should be a third party, separated backup.
He has gone silent on this issue. Hopefully he'll chime in. This is kind of why I started that other thread. Yes, that thread was for personal use, but the concepts are the same.
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@BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@Dashrender said
Absolutely - so I guess you're comment about that was that there should be a backup -uhhh.. yeah I agree with you, even though I guess others don't?
Well, again that has to be quantified. @scottalanmiller contends that ODfB and SharePoint are fully backed up by Microsoft, and there is no need for additional backups.
I do not agree with that, and feel there should be a third party, separated backup.
He has gone silent on this issue. Hopefully he'll chime in. This is kind of why I started that other thread. Yes, that thread was for personal use, but the concepts are the same.
Well, the concepts aren't entirely the same - OneDrive vs OneDrive for Business - I do expect (maybe wrongly) that they would be different on the back end.
OneDrive I wouldn't expect MS to backup. Sure I expect them to make best effort to have my data in more than one place to save from DC failure, server failure, etc. But a full on backup? nah - it's to cheap to expect that.
But, OneDrive for Business/Sharepoint yes I do fully expect (again maybe wrongly) that MS should have backups and that I should be able to put in for a timely restore at the object level.
But it sounds like ODfB doesn't offer that either.So, what is a company to do when an employee goes on a rampage and deletes a bunch of stuff? and let's say it's photos so we don't have any potential versioning backups to recover from.
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@Dashrender said
So, what is a company to do when an employee goes on a rampage and deletes a bunch of stuff? and let's say it's photos so we don't have any potential versioning backups to recover from.
Or worse if your admin account gets compromised somehow.
I realize it's a game of numbers. From my offline discussions with @scottalanmiller he said it was more likely for my backup tapes to get thrown in a fire than it was for my admin account to get hacked.
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@BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@Dashrender said
So, what is a company to do when an employee goes on a rampage and deletes a bunch of stuff? and let's say it's photos so we don't have any potential versioning backups to recover from.
Or worse if your admin account gets compromised somehow.
I realize it's a game of numbers. From my offline discussions with @scottalanmiller he said it was more likely for my backup tapes to get thrown in a fire than it was for my admin account to get hacked.
If you use 2FA I would agree with him.
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@Dashrender said >
If you use 2FA I would agree with him.
OK, so let me argue his point here then. (I wonder if @scottalanmiller is just sitting back, waiting to see if he has convinced me!)
If a secure admin password with 2FA is equally (f not more) secure than offsite backups, what are we afraid of?
- ODfB does not fall into play. ODfB is considered private user storage. Company files would need to be stored under SharePoint to be protected from total deletion.
1a. I think there is a way to preserve deleted user files in ODfB, but it has to be turned on for each individual user. (Can nayone confirm?) (See: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/all/second-stage-recycle-in-one-drive-for-business/be1361fe-b87b-4457-9b32-12ca9ceae180?page=1)
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Any files that are deleted go into the site recycle bin, so while it might be a s-ton of work, they could be recovered.
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We trust that Microsoft is backing up the entire site, and will restore if needed. (The ENTIRE site though, not just one file.)
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@BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@Dashrender said
So, what is a company to do when an employee goes on a rampage and deletes a bunch of stuff? and let's say it's photos so we don't have any potential versioning backups to recover from.
Or worse if your admin account gets compromised somehow.
This is different. This is intentional deletion, not by you, but still intentional deletion by your account through perfectly legal (as far as MS is concerned) means.
Your need for backup methods is partly decided by the risk vectors of the data loss.
So how much of a risk is it that you protect from intentional deletion?
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@JaredBusch said
This is different. This is intentional deletion, not by you, but still intentional deletion by your account through perfectly legal (as far as MS is concerned) means.
Your need for backup methods is partly decided by the risk vectors of the data loss.
So how much of a risk is it that you protect from intentional deletion?
Right, that is why @scottalanmiller is arguing against needing backup. Because the risk is so low. The risk of your backup tape (using tape as an example here, not as a working solution, obviously) and server both not working and leaving you with no data at all is more probable to him.
I said to me it FEELS like you should just back it up. Why not? We've been taught that our whole lives. It's always better to have 1 extra backup and not 1 too few backups, right?
But of course, the old "get emotion out of it" comes into play.
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@BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@JaredBusch said
This is different. This is intentional deletion, not by you, but still intentional deletion by your account through perfectly legal (as far as MS is concerned) means.
Your need for backup methods is partly decided by the risk vectors of the data loss.
So how much of a risk is it that you protect from intentional deletion?
Right, that is why @scottalanmiller is arguing against needing backup. Because the risk is so low. The risk of your backup tape (using tape as an example here, not as a working solution, obviously) and server both not working and leaving you with no data at all is more probable to him.
I said to me it FEELS like you should just back it up. Why not? We've been taught that our whole lives. It's always better to have 1 extra backup and not 1 too few backups, right?
But of course, the old "get emotion out of it" comes into play.
Fuck your feelings... This is basic logic and a business decision based on numbers.
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@JaredBusch said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
@JaredBusch said
This is different. This is intentional deletion, not by you, but still intentional deletion by your account through perfectly legal (as far as MS is concerned) means.
Your need for backup methods is partly decided by the risk vectors of the data loss.
So how much of a risk is it that you protect from intentional deletion?
Right, that is why @scottalanmiller is arguing against needing backup. Because the risk is so low. The risk of your backup tape (using tape as an example here, not as a working solution, obviously) and server both not working and leaving you with no data at all is more probable to him.
I said to me it FEELS like you should just back it up. Why not? We've been taught that our whole lives. It's always better to have 1 extra backup and not 1 too few backups, right?
But of course, the old "get emotion out of it" comes into play.
Fuck your feelings... This is basic logic and a business decision based on numbers.
Hey, my feeling have feelings man. SO harsh. LOL.
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@BRRABill said in Unitrends now has Office365 & Cloud backups!!:
Hey, my feeling have feelings man. SO harsh. LOL.
That is my point, and the reason for the harsh. You need to stop, because it does nothing but hurt the business.
