Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad
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@prcssupport said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
I had a vendor that I purchased a 4bay 4tb synology rack NAS from(AND paid more because it had disks) When I got it they had sent me a diskless system. They refused to resolve the issue saying that the unit doesnt had HDDs installed, and they would sell me more of them. I told them if I had made that mistake I would have sent the drives and ate it. In the end I shoved it back in their face and put the big FU in their future (As the song goes!)
That's a legal issue. If you introduced the BBB to that process, it would just protect the vendor and possibly keep you from being able to have a resolution.
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@prcssupport said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
I can understand mistakes, They happen. But they were wrong in their description. And wrong for not honoring what they marketed!
I will never buy from them again!
Sounds like you are describing the BBB themselves.
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@scottalanmiller said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
@MattSpeller said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
BBB is pay to play but I've heard they will negotiate disputes a bit.
Essentially, it's a little bit of extortion - "oh I see your BBB ratings / reviews are poor, would you like to pay us to fix that?"
If by negotiate you mean "deny them to people not paying", then yes. I've tried to report companies before and found out that since they were paying, I couldn't file a complaint. Total extortion.
I've even tried reporting the BBB themselves and they hide themselves as a Bait and Tackle Shop in Texas.
That's not cool, I've always thought they were a good org. I know my mother and others always looked to them with favor.
I find that type of behavior to be unacceptable, if you wanted to lodge a complaint you should be able to!
I seen things before on companies with the BBB and it list good and bad. It seemed to be fair.
Grr why do companies have to act shady!
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@prcssupport said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
@scottalanmiller said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
@MattSpeller said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
BBB is pay to play but I've heard they will negotiate disputes a bit.
Essentially, it's a little bit of extortion - "oh I see your BBB ratings / reviews are poor, would you like to pay us to fix that?"
If by negotiate you mean "deny them to people not paying", then yes. I've tried to report companies before and found out that since they were paying, I couldn't file a complaint. Total extortion.
I've even tried reporting the BBB themselves and they hide themselves as a Bait and Tackle Shop in Texas.
That's not cool, I've always thought they were a good org. I know my mother and others always looked to them with favor.
I find that type of behavior to be unacceptable, if you wanted to lodge a complaint you shold be!
I seen things before on companies with the BBB and it list good and bad. It seemed to be fair.
Grr why do companies have to act shady!
Because all of the money is in acting shady! To be fair, they are a non-profit and it's VERY hard to be a non-shady non-profit. I have had long diatribes on the ecosystem that makes non-profits have almost no means of being ethical.
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@scottalanmiller said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
@prcssupport said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
I started this thread because the BBB called, and said there had been inquiries into my business by several larger companies in my area. Coincidence... Maybe, But not sure it is possible.
That's the exact same scam that Dunn and Bradstreet runs. They are both the exact same thing, social engineering scams.
I figured the possibility existed of that. Of course "me being me!" My mind says that could be the BBB, maybe they are calling because of a complaint. The guy that wants to do good by everyone says (take that call if there is an issue you need to fix\address)
The sceptic in me, says maybe it's for something else all together (a scammer.)But with my "understanding, and what mom always told me was they worked to validate businesses, and help the customers keep them accountable. While also providing a platform for people to weed out the "bad ones from their decisions."
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@prcssupport said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
I figured the possibility existed of that. Of course "me being me!" My mind says that could be the BBB, maybe they are calling because of a complaint. The guy that wants to do good by everyone says (take that call if there is an issue you need to fix\address)
If there is a complaint, then they are extorting you. You are not a member so they have no business calling you. Who are they? Just some random person looking to take advantage of you. They are not an innocent third party in any way. If there is something to fix, whoever had that complaint needed to tell you, not them. If they accepted a complaint from a random person you don't know, they are scammers. If they try to make money off of you because someone might do that, they are scammers.
No legit reason that they could call you.
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@prcssupport said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
The sceptic in me, says maybe it's for something else all together (a scammer.)But with my "understanding, and what mom always told me was they worked to validate businesses, and help the customers keep them accountable. While also providing a platform for people to weed out the "bad ones from their decisions."
One thing I've noticed in my travels.... good businesses never use the BBB. Ones that you'd likely want to complain about do, often.
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@scottalanmiller said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
@prcssupport said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
I figured the possibility existed of that. Of course "me being me!" My mind says that could be the BBB, maybe they are calling because of a complaint. The guy that wants to do good by everyone says (take that call if there is an issue you need to fix\address)
If there is a complaint, then they are extorting you. You are not a member so they have no business calling you. Who are they? Just some random person looking to take advantage of you. They are not an innocent third party in any way. If there is something to fix, whoever had that complaint needed to tell you, not them. If they accepted a complaint from a random person you don't know, they are scammers. If they try to make money off of you because someone might do that, they are scammers.
No legit reason that they could call you.
Very true! I should have ignored it!
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@prcssupport said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
@scottalanmiller said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
@prcssupport said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
I figured the possibility existed of that. Of course "me being me!" My mind says that could be the BBB, maybe they are calling because of a complaint. The guy that wants to do good by everyone says (take that call if there is an issue you need to fix\address)
If there is a complaint, then they are extorting you. You are not a member so they have no business calling you. Who are they? Just some random person looking to take advantage of you. They are not an innocent third party in any way. If there is something to fix, whoever had that complaint needed to tell you, not them. If they accepted a complaint from a random person you don't know, they are scammers. If they try to make money off of you because someone might do that, they are scammers.
No legit reason that they could call you.
Very true! I should have ignored it!
That's why I block ALL sales calls. I have a zero tolerance policy. THere is no simple means of calling me directly. It effectively stops any possibility of being social engineers by a sales person.
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@scottalanmiller said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
@prcssupport said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
The sceptic in me, says maybe it's for something else all together (a scammer.)But with my "understanding, and what mom always told me was they worked to validate businesses, and help the customers keep them accountable. While also providing a platform for people to weed out the "bad ones from their decisions."
One thing I've noticed in my travels.... good businesses never use the BBB. Ones that you'd likely want to complain about do, often.
I had never thought gees, I'm going to call up the BBB to cover me.
That said I'm a bit biased (I think I'm a good guy trying to make it.) I certainly don't think of myself looking to extort someone, and try to hide and crush opposition to the contrary.
Another part of my mind thinks about how many people\companies look up to and make decisions based on BBB info that they don't know otherwise.
My mind thinks...
Did I just lose a customer that I was really hoping to get, due to there being no info (accreditation)
Obviously the same can be said for how many I lose due to it.
Well we will see how this rabbit hole ends.
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@prcssupport said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
Another part of my mind thinks about how many people\companies look up to and make decisions based on BBB info that they don't know otherwise.
I wonder if that is true. It's pretty obvious just thinking about their business model... ALL of their money comes from making companies pay to get their complaints absolved. If a company is using the BBB to make decisions, do you really want them as customers?
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@prcssupport said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
Did I just lose a customer that I was really hoping to get, due to there being no info (accreditation)
Or... did you just lose one you shouldn't have wanted but didn't know any better?
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@prcssupport said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
Well we will see how this rabbit hole ends.
The question really comes down to... how many businesses do you want to acquire based on having good ethics, or questionable ones?
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You CAN use the BBB and never tell anyone. But you'd know that you were funding that stuff and have to live with that. And you'd be out that money, which isn't a ton, but it's something. Letting them extort you justifies then extorting others as well.
I can honestly say I've never heard of anyone using the BBB to vet vendors. But I have first hand seen it many times being used to cover up for naughty behaviour. I'm sure someone in the mom and pop space tries to use it legitimately. But I suspect that the same market that falls for this is the same market that doesn't think through other business relationship decisions, so you face lots of other problems like customers that can't pay, confuse resells with consultants, etc. It's a customer that doens't empathize with their vendors and makes irrational, illogical decisions about them. Good ones to take advantage of, not good ones to do real business with. This is my theory and it holds up from my limited experience... customers that we had that were BBB Listed were always the ones trying to rip us off.
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@scottalanmiller said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
@prcssupport said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
Did I just lose a customer that I was really hoping to get, due to there being no info (accreditation)
Or... did you just lose one you shouldn't have wanted but didn't know any better?
Yes I know, same thought in my head too. I have had customers that turned out to be ones I didn't want to have. I like to help everyone, but fairness to both sides has to be there.
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@prcssupport said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
@scottalanmiller said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
@prcssupport said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
Did I just lose a customer that I was really hoping to get, due to there being no info (accreditation)
Or... did you just lose one you shouldn't have wanted but didn't know any better?
Yes I know, same thought in my head too. I have had customers that turned out to be ones I didn't want to have. I like to help everyone, but fairness to both sides has to be there.
Yeah, there are a LOT of bad customers out there. A major part of being a successful MSP is weeding out the bad eggs.
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@scottalanmiller said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
@prcssupport said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
Well we will see how this rabbit hole ends.
The question really comes down to... how many businesses do you want to acquire based on having good ethics, or questionable ones?
Well, that's were this gets hairy... I wish I had this convo before my conversation with them!
I was busy waiting for another customer when I got the call, I did what I thought was "a good move" to help develop more business.
So know that they hook, and lined me, I wonder what happens on the sinker...
That's when the extortion probably kicks in.
You stop paying or tell them you dont want to do this. Then do they hold your hand to the grinder till you pay (by way of Changing your brand new public profile to "F")
Or do they just let you go? I doubt it...
Well maybe there is one other way... encourage my existing customer base to leave a message about my services while i helped them. Before I become a nonpaying business.
Then when I left at least some honest feedback has been left. And people can see it and make a decision. Of course I would have to screen grab it all, in case they decided to try and destroy me on their platform and say there was never anything good just bad or What have you not.
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@prcssupport said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
@scottalanmiller said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
@prcssupport said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
Well we will see how this rabbit hole ends.
The question really comes down to... how many businesses do you want to acquire based on having good ethics, or questionable ones?
Well, that's were this gets hairy... I wish I had this convo before my conversation with them!
I was busy waiting for another customer when I got the call, I did what I thought was "a good move" to help develop more business.
So know that they hook, and lined me, I wonder what happens on the sinker...
That's when the extortion probably kicks in.
You stop paying or tell them you dont want to do this. Then do they hold your hand to the grinder till you pay (by way of Changing your brand new public profile to "F")
Or do they just let you go? I doubt it...
Well maybe there is one other way... encourage my existing customer base to leave a message about my services while i helped them. Before I become a nonpaying business.
Then when I left at least some honest feedback has been left. And people can see it and make a decision. Of course I would have to screen grab it all, in case they decided to try and destroy me on their platform and say there was never anything good just bad or What have you not.
Oh, you are already sucked in? No idea what you do to escape now. Never known anyone to try that. Not sure what options you have. We know that if the BBB scams you there is no one to report to because... tried that. They know that they can't get a bad rating because their own the site so no idea what recourse you have short of a class action suit.
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I've been a member in the past for a non-IT company. My experience doesn't match @scottalanmiller's perception of the program. I never experienced extortion. Ever. We haven't been a member for several years. I just checked and our rating is at A+. Failing to respond to a consumer dispute is definitely a way to get your rating to drop.
They do "assist" with disputes. However, I don't see much value here as they seem to just be a conduit for sending messages / responses back and forth between the parties. In my experience, they never intervened or offered any input, suggestions, actual arbitration, etc.
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@Danp said in Thoughts on the BBB! Good ~ Bad:
They do "assist" with disputes. However, I don't see much value here as they seem to just be a conduit for sending messages / responses back and forth between the parties. In my experience, they never intervened or offered any input, suggestions, actual arbitration, etc.
When we tried to use them for disputes they totally blocked any bad ratings or feedback or any action at all from the paying customer. They totally didn't allow any negative responses whatsoever. By "assisting" what they did was blanket protect the paying party.
