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    Converting to a virtual environment

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    • scottalanmillerS
      scottalanmiller @Danp
      last edited by

      @Danp said in Converting to a virtual environment:

      This is one area where I feel that XO is missing an option to backup the host / metadata to a separate location. If you need to rebuild the XO host (on SD) without restoring all the VMs (local storage), how does one accomplish this if you haven't backed up the above info?

      But if the metadata isn't on the host, and XS says that you should not back that up, why would you want XO to have an option for that? Just rebuild from the installer (think of this as being pre-backed up) and the metadata is already available.

      DanpD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • BRRABillB
        BRRABill @scottalanmiller
        last edited by

        @scottalanmiller said

        That's what I thought. So if the metadata is being backed up with the VMs in place, what would you be restoring for the host?

        The host is backed up to your local machine through XC.

        scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • scottalanmillerS
          scottalanmiller @BRRABill
          last edited by

          @BRRABill said in Converting to a virtual environment:

          @scottalanmiller said

          That's what I thought. So if the metadata is being backed up with the VMs in place, what would you be restoring for the host?

          The host is backed up to your local machine through XC.

          Is there a benefit to that?

          BRRABillB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • BRRABillB
            BRRABill @scottalanmiller
            last edited by

            @scottalanmiller said in Converting to a virtual environment:

            @BRRABill said in Converting to a virtual environment:

            @scottalanmiller said

            That's what I thought. So if the metadata is being backed up with the VMs in place, what would you be restoring for the host?

            The host is backed up to your local machine through XC.

            Is there a benefit to that?

            That's a good question.

            It is basically host configuration, I guess.

            If you had a lot of settings changed (such as if there were a lot of pool members, etc.) maybe it is valuable.

            This is a good article I have been working off of:
            http://techblog.danielpellarini.com/sysadmin/steps-to-take-to-restore-xenserver-from-backup/

            But I am assuming since Citrix says to take regular backups of the host, perhaps it is needed. But perhaps not.

            This is one of those times it would be great to have someone from there on here to say ... yeah, definitely or no you're crazy!

            scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • BRRABillB
              BRRABill @Danp
              last edited by

              @Danp said in Converting to a virtual environment:

              This is one area where I feel that XO is missing an option to backup the host / metadata to a separate location. If you need to rebuild the XO host (on SD) without restoring all the VMs (local storage), how does one accomplish this if you haven't backed up the above info?

              It can be done. There is apparently a "try my best" type option.

              But it would be best to have this info, without question.

              Why it's not INCLUDED somewhere, don't ask me. Like a small config file in the SR that does mapping.

              But since you can automate the backing up of the metadata, perhaps they feel like the functionality is already there.

              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • scottalanmillerS
                scottalanmiller @BRRABill
                last edited by

                @BRRABill said in Converting to a virtual environment:

                But I am assuming since Citrix says to take regular backups of the host, perhaps it is needed. But perhaps not.

                I thought that they said not to take them.

                BRRABillB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • DanpD
                  Danp @scottalanmiller
                  last edited by

                  @scottalanmiller See our prior discussion here.

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • BRRABillB
                    BRRABill @scottalanmiller
                    last edited by BRRABill

                    @scottalanmiller said in Converting to a virtual environment:

                    @BRRABill said in Converting to a virtual environment:

                    But I am assuming since Citrix says to take regular backups of the host, perhaps it is needed. But perhaps not.

                    I thought that they said not to take them.

                    No they said to reinstall, but then proceed to say to take very regular backups of the host.

                    Here's the whole thing. (NOTE: this can be done with using the CLI as well._

                    *Citrix recommends that, whenever possible, you leave the installed state of XenServer hosts unaltered. That is,
                    do not install any additional packages or start additional services on XenServer hosts, and treat them as if they
                    are appliances. The best way to restore, then, is to reinstall XenServer host software from the installation media.
                    If you have multiple XenServer hosts, the best approach is to configure a TFTP server and appropriate answerfiles
                    for this purpose (see the XenServer Installation Guide).
                    For VMs, the best approach is to install backup agents on them, just as if they were standard physical servers.
                    For Windows VMs, as of this release we have tested CA BrightStor ARCserve Backup, and Symantec NetBackup
                    and Backup Exec.
                    For more information about backup tools tested, best practices, and backups in general, see the Citrix Knowledge
                    Base.
                    107
                    Citrix recommends that you frequently perform as many of the following backup procedures as possible to
                    recover from possible server and/or software failure.

                    To backup pool metadata

                    1. Run the command:
                      xe pool-dump-database file-name=<backup>
                    2. Run the command:
                      xe pool-restore-database file-name=<backup> dry-run=true
                      This command checks that the target machine has an appropriate number of appropriately named NICs,
                      which is required for the backup to succeed.

                    To backup host configuration and software
                    • Run the command:
                    xe host-backup host=<host> file-name=<hostbackup>
                    Note:
                    • Do not create the backup in the control domain.
                    • This procedure may create a large backup file.
                    • To complete a restore you have to reboot to the original install CD.
                    • This data can only be restored to the original machine.*

                    coliverC 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • coliverC
                      coliver @BRRABill
                      last edited by

                      This post is deleted!
                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • P
                        PRPL
                        last edited by

                        wow .... errr... have I opened-up a can of worms here ?

                        BRRABillB 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 1
                        • BRRABillB
                          BRRABill @PRPL
                          last edited by

                          @PRPL said in Converting to a virtual environment:

                          wow .... errr... have I opened-up a can of worms here ?

                          Yeah maybe this is a time for a fork!

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • BRRABillB
                            BRRABill @PRPL
                            last edited by

                            @PRPL said in Converting to a virtual environment:

                            wow .... errr... have I opened-up a can of worms here ?

                            And also backed up the statement of @JaredBusch 🙂

                            scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • BRRABillB
                              BRRABill
                              last edited by BRRABill

                              Further on there is this. Perhaps this answers your question, @scottalanmiller

                              "Because the privileged control domain is best left as installed, without customizing it with
                              other packages, Citrix recommends that you set up a network boot environment to cleanly
                              perform a fresh installation from the XenServer media as a recovery strategy. In many cases
                              you will not need to backup the control domain at all, but just save the pool metadata (see
                              Section 8.9.1, “Backing up Virtual Machine metadata”). This backup method should always
                              be considered complementary to backing up the pool metadata."

                              I take this as, if you leave it "as installed" there is no need to backup the host.

                              scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                              • P
                                PRPL @scottalanmiller
                                last edited by

                                @scottalanmiller said in Converting to a virtual environment:

                                @PRPL said in Converting to a virtual environment:

                                I did look @ the free Starwind Virtual SAN, but from what I read, I understand that the free version will allow only storage and not compute, on the same host... That's allowed, only in the paid version... ??

                                I've never heard of that limitation. that would be a new and surprising one. I'm quite confident that you can put your storage on your compute nodes.

                                Checking with @KOOLER @StarWind_Software

                                I'm making this statement, based on my understanding of the Free vs Paid document, found on https://www.starwindsoftware.com/whitepapers/free-vs-paid.pdf

                                Please look @ the comparison on the second-last page of this PDF... It says, next to Deployment Scenarios , that Hyperconvergence, is available only for Certain User Statuses (Check Status)

                                scottalanmillerS KOOLERK 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • scottalanmillerS
                                  scottalanmiller @BRRABill
                                  last edited by

                                  @BRRABill said in Converting to a virtual environment:

                                  @PRPL said in Converting to a virtual environment:

                                  wow .... errr... have I opened-up a can of worms here ?

                                  And also backed up the statement of @JaredBusch 🙂

                                  Or mine... are you carrying Windows complexities into the simple XenServer world?

                                  BRRABillB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • scottalanmillerS
                                    scottalanmiller @PRPL
                                    last edited by

                                    @PRPL said in Converting to a virtual environment:

                                    @scottalanmiller said in Converting to a virtual environment:

                                    @PRPL said in Converting to a virtual environment:

                                    I did look @ the free Starwind Virtual SAN, but from what I read, I understand that the free version will allow only storage and not compute, on the same host... That's allowed, only in the paid version... ??

                                    I've never heard of that limitation. that would be a new and surprising one. I'm quite confident that you can put your storage on your compute nodes.

                                    Checking with @KOOLER @StarWind_Software

                                    I'm making this statement, based on my understanding of the Free vs Paid document, found on https://www.starwindsoftware.com/whitepapers/free-vs-paid.pdf

                                    Please look @ the comparison on the second-last page of this PDF... It says, next to Deployment Scenarios , that Hyperconvergence, is available only for Certain User Statuses (Check Status)

                                    that does appear to say that, but goes against hundreds of posts from the company so I think that this might be outdated.

                                    KOOLERK 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • scottalanmillerS
                                      scottalanmiller @BRRABill
                                      last edited by

                                      @BRRABill said in Converting to a virtual environment:

                                      Further on there is this. Perhaps this answers your question, @scottalanmiller

                                      "Because the privileged control domain is best left as installed, without customizing it with
                                      other packages, Citrix recommends that you set up a network boot environment to cleanly
                                      perform a fresh installation from the XenServer media as a recovery strategy. In many cases
                                      you will not need to backup the control domain at all, but just save the pool metadata (see
                                      Section 8.9.1, “Backing up Virtual Machine metadata”). This backup method should always
                                      be considered complementary to backing up the pool metadata."

                                      I take this as, if you leave it "as installed" there is no need to backup the host.

                                      AND that you should leave it "as installed".

                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • BRRABillB
                                        BRRABill @scottalanmiller
                                        last edited by

                                        @scottalanmiller said

                                        Or mine... are you carrying Windows complexities into the simple XenServer world?

                                        His statement being...
                                        "some of the biggesest threads on XS on this forum to see how unstable it is for people that do not fully know what they are doing"

                                        scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • scottalanmillerS
                                          scottalanmiller @BRRABill
                                          last edited by

                                          @BRRABill said in Converting to a virtual environment:

                                          @scottalanmiller said

                                          Or mine... are you carrying Windows complexities into the simple XenServer world?

                                          His statement being...
                                          "some of the biggesest threads on XS on this forum to see how unstable it is for people that do not fully know what they are doing"

                                          And my sentiment being that it was only people doing non-standard things and those following the instructions and keeping it simple (with the exception of needing to skip the SD piece) it's rock solid. Is anyone having issues with normal usage? I'm not aware of a stability concern. And also I pointed out that the things that cause the "instabilities" as they are seen will do the same things on Hyper-V... so the issue isn't about XenServer, it's about people pushing boundaries on test boxes to see what breaks and where.

                                          BRRABillB 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • BRRABillB
                                            BRRABill @scottalanmiller
                                            last edited by

                                            @scottalanmiller said

                                            And my sentiment being that it was only people doing non-standard things and those following the instructions and keeping it simple (with the exception of needing to skip the SD piece) it's rock solid. Is anyone having issues with normal usage? I'm not aware of a stability concern. And also I pointed out that the things that cause the "instabilities" as they are seen will do the same things on Hyper-V... so the issue isn't about XenServer, it's about people pushing boundaries on test boxes to see what breaks and where.

                                            I ain't touchin' nothing' no mores.

                                            (Though I am going to keep testing my /var/log theories.)

                                            scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
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