ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7
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@wirestyle22 said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
Is there ever a good reason to not be kind?
That's not our point. Our point is that we were being kind. At least that is my point. Jared is pushing me to be a better person, not to correct my opinion on this particular tiny matter.
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@wirestyle22 said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
@scottalanmiller said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
@wirestyle22 said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
If I said DHCP is bad in every situation. How would you fix me?
We'd start by discussing why you feel this way. We have to get to a root cause. It requires diagnosis.
First step is determining if it is true. Maybe you are right and DHCP IS bad in every situation and you have a good reason for it, in which case I can learn something. But assuming that it is wrong, we need to find out why you feel it is true. That's the starting point.
So you're correcting the concept not the person. I am not just a collection of facts and concepts. That's what I'm trying to say. I'm sorry if I'm not being clear.
Both, but you don't need to fix the concept if you fix the person. Fixing the person is the important part.
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@scottalanmiller said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
@wirestyle22 said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
Is there ever a good reason to not be kind?
That's not our point. Our point is that we were being kind. At least that is my point. Jared is pushing me to be a better person, not to correct my opinion on this particular tiny matter.
I think Jared most of the time is trying to correct everyone to be as factually accurate as possible--which I admire/appreciate honestly. I don't think it has to do with anyone as a person. Maybe I'm wrong though.
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@wirestyle22 said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
@scottalanmiller said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
@wirestyle22 said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
@JaredBusch said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
@wirestyle22 said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
@scottalanmiller said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
@wirestyle22 said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
This is turning into a nature vs. nurture argument. You can't change human nature but you can change the nurture part of it which are the ideas and concepts being taught. I agree that people have to be open to change in order for anything to work and that is always a struggle.
No, it remains proximate versus root. People do change and grow. Ideas are just artefacts of people. You fix ideas when you are a business and don't care about developing your people. You fix people when you care about keeping people and improving them.
My takeaway: fix ideas when people are disposable. Fix people when people matter.
If I said DHCP is bad in every situation. How would you fix me?
If you were my employee, I would train you on the reasons why that is not true. If you persist, I would fire you.
So you would challenge the idea and expect me to change my thought process if I could not factually support my argument, correct?
Those are two things. Yes, challenge the idea because we need the company to function. But challenge you to figure out why you thought that it was true, that's the important bit. Figure out why your thought process brought you to that conclusion.
Which is a misunderstanding of probably a more basic concept related to it. Still the same situation I think.
Maybe, but if so, again a proximate. Keep digging. At the end, either there is a source of bad information or a bad thinking process. Information is just bad randomly. It has come source somewhere. don't get distracted by proximate issues.
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@scottalanmiller said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
@wirestyle22 said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
@scottalanmiller said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
@wirestyle22 said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
@JaredBusch said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
@wirestyle22 said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
@scottalanmiller said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
@wirestyle22 said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
This is turning into a nature vs. nurture argument. You can't change human nature but you can change the nurture part of it which are the ideas and concepts being taught. I agree that people have to be open to change in order for anything to work and that is always a struggle.
No, it remains proximate versus root. People do change and grow. Ideas are just artefacts of people. You fix ideas when you are a business and don't care about developing your people. You fix people when you care about keeping people and improving them.
My takeaway: fix ideas when people are disposable. Fix people when people matter.
If I said DHCP is bad in every situation. How would you fix me?
If you were my employee, I would train you on the reasons why that is not true. If you persist, I would fire you.
So you would challenge the idea and expect me to change my thought process if I could not factually support my argument, correct?
Those are two things. Yes, challenge the idea because we need the company to function. But challenge you to figure out why you thought that it was true, that's the important bit. Figure out why your thought process brought you to that conclusion.
Which is a misunderstanding of probably a more basic concept related to it. Still the same situation I think.
Maybe, but if so, again a proximate. Keep digging. At the end, either there is a source of bad information or a bad thinking process. Information is just bad randomly. It has come source somewhere. don't get distracted by proximate issues.
Right but by challenging the idea people are forced to change their minds when unable to justify their stance. They now are no longer a source of misinformation themselves.
As a side note I just want to say I'm 100% not agitated or aggressive at all. I'm actually only trying to reason. I hope I'm coming across that way.
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@wirestyle22 said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
Right but by challenging the idea people are forced to change their minds when unable to justify their stance. They now are no longer a source of misinformation themselves.
You are still distracted. The source remains undiscovered and unfixed. You are being blinded by the bandaid applied to the proximate issue. You are trying to fix the results to the company, not to fix the person.
Your way requires someone to watch over that person all the time because you are never addressing the problem. Fix the person and you don't have to watch over them to keep them on the straight and narrow, so to speak.
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Challenging ideas alone makes people tend to learn answers by rote, not understanding why they get the wrong answers in the first place. It's easy and comforting to only go after proximates, but it is not very effectual.
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@scottalanmiller said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
@wirestyle22 said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
Right but by challenging the idea people are forced to change their minds when unable to justify their stance. They now are no longer a source of misinformation themselves.
You are still distracted. The source remains undiscovered and unfixed. You are being blinded by the bandaid applied to the proximate issue. You are trying to fix the results to the company, not to fix the person.
Your way requires someone to watch over that person all the time because you are never addressing the problem. Fix the person and you don't have to watch over them to keep them on the straight and narrow, so to speak.
I think most people (this is an assumption because I can't speak for everyone) take what they like from everything they learn. In the same way you took what you liked from the way your parents raised you and augmented it to be the best parent you can be. Jared and I don't agree about kindness in teaching for instance. I'm not challenging who he is as a person though.
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@scottalanmiller said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
Challenging ideas alone makes people tend to learn answers by rote, not understanding why they get the wrong answers in the first place. It's easy and comforting to only go after proximates, but it is not very effectual.
If you challenge me on something of course I'm going to analyze everything related to it. Anyone interested in bettering themselves (as relative as that is) would do the same.
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Here is Ray Dalio's infamous manifesto. It is possible that no person has ever thought about and researched this topic more than he has.
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You don't have to be against something to be for something in the same way you don't need
@scottalanmiller said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
Here is Ray Dalio's infamous manifesto. It is possible that no person has ever thought about and researched this topic more than he has.
Appreciated. I'll read this tonight and comment.
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Just tested and teh issue remains.
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@scottalanmiller said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
Just tested and teh issue remains.
Did you file a bug report?
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@JaredBusch said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
@scottalanmiller said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
Just tested and teh issue remains.
Did you file a bug report?
I asked and he said that it was working.
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But I had not thought that it was a bug, only a change in supported versions. But as ownCloud thinks it works, seems like it must be a bug.
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@scottalanmiller said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
But I had not thought that it was a bug, only a change in supported versions. But as ownCloud thinks it works, seems like it must be a bug.
Stop being obstinate about this and report it next time.
How can you say "ownCloud thinks it works" without thinking that you look like a total ass?
Are you basing this on a single developer commenting on an IT forum simply to get word out that ownCloud has been updated?
What kind of logic is that?
If you had spent any time whatsoever troubleshooting the issue, such as searching the reported issues on git, you would know that in addition to the owncloud-deps-php5, there is an owncloud-deps-php7.
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@JaredBusch said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
Stop being obstinate about this and report it next time.
If you read my posts, I was NOT obstinate, I went to report it and could not find a place to. The Core is not the packaging, right?
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@JaredBusch said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
How can you say "ownCloud thinks it works" without thinking that you look like a total ass?
Easily. I asked them point blank if it was fixed, they said that it should work in response to me asking if it was being addressed. How can you say that that makes me look like an ass? How am I the one who looks like an ass? I asked, they answered. It's that simple. First I'm obstinate for "not reporting", now I am ass for repeating what they told me.
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@JaredBusch said in ownCloud 9.0.2 with PHP 7:
If you had spent any time whatsoever troubleshooting the issue, such as searching the reported issues on git, you would know that in addition to the owncloud-deps-php5, there is an owncloud-deps-php7.
In the thread, they could not find that package. One random developer on a forum (same as the one here, except the one here we know is an official, in house developer, we don't know that on GitHub, could be anyone) asked if that package was installed. But the person could not find it. Have you found it yet?
My install is down for the move, so I don't have access to test this right now.
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Did you check the repos before calling me an ass or taking the word of some random person on a forum? I don't think so. You are so insistent that this is my fault and wanting to call me names that you are blindly willing to assume anything. Bottom line.... one official spokesperson for the company responded that the issue should not exist after asked directly if it was fixed. A random person on another forum made a comment about something that doesn't exist and you took their word for it as a reason to badger me.
Here are the full contents of the repo for those interested.
So where is the PHP7 package that you are berating me about? Please provide me the link as I cannot find it.
