SATA vs NL-SAS vs SAS For New Array
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I see 7200 SATA very commonly. NL-SAS is becoming very popular as it is roughly identical in price these days and has a little performance boost, especially in virtualization scenarios.
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@PSX_Defector said:
@travisdh1 said:
@PSX_Defector said:
@Dashrender said:
@PSX_Defector said:
@Dashrender said:
@John-Nicholson said:
With De-duplication and Compression and RAID 5/6 Flash drives are cheaper than 10K RPM drives. We did the price comparisons with VSAN 6.2 came out and 10K is officially "dead" unless all your data is encrypted or something.
What are you using for De-Dup and compression? Is that something native in hypervisors now? if not, it adds to the cost column.
There's dedupe in Win2K12 at the OS level, assuming you are deduplicating NTFS file systems. If you are using encryption, that's the only way you will be able to dedupe data.
We use Pure Storage SANs, which support native dedupe at the block level. And it appears that VSAN supports block level dedupe as well.
https://blogs.vmware.com/virtualblocks/2016/02/10/whats-new-vmware-virtual-san-6-2/
Well, you're paying a LOT for those hardware platform - so at that point the extra space gained makes the SSD definitely more worthwhile performance wise. But not many SMB's are dealing with those things.
Which is very true. I work for a multi-tenant environment, so it's worth a few bucks to get the performance edge on those things. Dedupe is just an added bonus.
Which also brings up the fact that one should be hosting with us! We have the hardware one can only dream about. Why try to keep up when you can spend the cash on hosting which will take care of all of that for you?
Which is what company? The profile here doesn't say, and it's kinda silly to not get a good self-promotion in with that!
For various reasons, I don't mention who I work for, be it my previous employer Big Red V or my current one. Gotta maintain separation of professional and personal life.
Let's just say it's not Amazon, but if you follow cloud hosting, you would know who we are.
I thought you were still with the Big Red V?
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@Jason said:
@PSX_Defector said:
@travisdh1 said:
@PSX_Defector said:
@Dashrender said:
@PSX_Defector said:
@Dashrender said:
@John-Nicholson said:
With De-duplication and Compression and RAID 5/6 Flash drives are cheaper than 10K RPM drives. We did the price comparisons with VSAN 6.2 came out and 10K is officially "dead" unless all your data is encrypted or something.
What are you using for De-Dup and compression? Is that something native in hypervisors now? if not, it adds to the cost column.
There's dedupe in Win2K12 at the OS level, assuming you are deduplicating NTFS file systems. If you are using encryption, that's the only way you will be able to dedupe data.
We use Pure Storage SANs, which support native dedupe at the block level. And it appears that VSAN supports block level dedupe as well.
https://blogs.vmware.com/virtualblocks/2016/02/10/whats-new-vmware-virtual-san-6-2/
Well, you're paying a LOT for those hardware platform - so at that point the extra space gained makes the SSD definitely more worthwhile performance wise. But not many SMB's are dealing with those things.
Which is very true. I work for a multi-tenant environment, so it's worth a few bucks to get the performance edge on those things. Dedupe is just an added bonus.
Which also brings up the fact that one should be hosting with us! We have the hardware one can only dream about. Why try to keep up when you can spend the cash on hosting which will take care of all of that for you?
Which is what company? The profile here doesn't say, and it's kinda silly to not get a good self-promotion in with that!
For various reasons, I don't mention who I work for, be it my previous employer Big Red V or my current one. Gotta maintain separation of professional and personal life.
Let's just say it's not Amazon, but if you follow cloud hosting, you would know who we are.
I thought you were still with the Big Red V?
Nope, they shitcanned three quarters of the US based staff last year. I walked out $10K richer, a new job in two days, and a pay raise.
If you are still hosting with them, flee as fast as your contract will allow you. They recently went through another round of shitcannings, this time it was management. They lost great people, and is no longer the same company I knew.
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The server I am looking to put these drives into has 3.5 inch bays, so I could use either 3.5 or 2.5 inch disks.
Is there a preferred one to go with in this scenario? Or does size really not matter, so to speak? Is one preferred?
Sometimes on xByte the 2.5 drive is cheaper than the 3.5 which is why I ask...
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@BRRABill said:
The server I am looking to put these drives into has 3.5 inch bays, so I could use either 3.5 or 2.5 inch disks.
Is there a preferred one to go with in this scenario? Or does size really not matter, so to speak? Is one preferred?
Sometimes on xByte the 2.5 drive is cheaper than the 3.5 which is why I ask...
2.5 has faster seek because... well it sweeps less disk!
2.5 is generally more $/GB
2.5 generally uses less power
2.5 @7200rpm is a pretty dang fast drive per $/GB3.5 comes in larger sizes
3.5 comes in 15k rpm (2.5 used to come in 10k IIRC but they were rare)
3.5 comes in "hybrid" SSD chunk addedSpecifically for your scenario I'd go 3.5 PURELY because 3.5 to 2.5 adapter thing-a-ma-whatsits can be expensive, rattle and fiddly.
Were I spec'ing out a server I'd consider 2.5 for some scenarios.
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I priced out all the scenarios I am looking at.
Basically, we only have about 300GB across our physical servers ATM, and I do not see it growing very quickly. Pretty sure I could get away with 900GB. The VMs on this server will be a file server, and a non-Exchange mail server (MDaemon). I've been watching the IOPS on the mail server, and they are pretty low.
Here are the potential options. Do these numbers seem about right? They don't take into consideration any cache. (This server has a PERC 710.)
Be curious to hear which way people would go if this was your server. Go for the most IOPS since storage isn't need? Go with a little extra storage and lower cost?
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@BRRABill I'd go the 500's in OBR10.... but.......
You could get 3 cheap 960GB SSD for that money and RAID5 them....
Also that seems like a lot for 500gb drives, $75 a pop? shrug
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@BRRABill said:
I priced out all the scenarios I am looking at.
Basically, we only have about 300GB across our physical servers ATM, and I do not see it growing very quickly. Pretty sure I could get away with 900GB. The VMs on this server will be a file server, and a non-Exchange mail server (MDaemon). I've been watching the IOPS on the mail server, and they are pretty low.
Here are the potential options. Do these numbers seem about right? They don't take into consideration any cache. (This server has a PERC 710.)
Be curious to hear which way people would go if this was your server. Go for the most IOPS since storage isn't need? Go with a little extra storage and lower cost?
Is that cost the total for all the drives that would be used?
If IOPS needs are met, I'd go with less expensive. What would the need to spend more money be?
@MattSpeller said:
@BRRABill I'd go the 500's in OBR10.... but.......
You could get 3 cheap 960GB SSD for that money and RAID5 them....
Also that seems like a lot for 500gb drives, $75 a pop? shrug
Depends, are we talking consumer or enterprise class drives at that $75 each?
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@travisdh1 said:
Depends, are we talking consumer or enterprise class drives at that $75 each?
He does not mention SAS so I was assuming 7200rpm SATA commodity disposable spinny rust.
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Sorry, these are all DELL drives, for a DELL server.
After having my stuff crash twice now with non-DELL drives, I will heed the warning and only put in DELL stuff.
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@MattSpeller said:
Also that seems like a lot for 500gb drives, $75 a pop? shrug
Actually $99 each, from xByte.
I already have 2 of them, came with the server.
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@travisdh1 said:
Is that cost the total for all the drives that would be used?
Yes, for DELL drives from xByte.
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@BRRABill said:
@MattSpeller said:
Also that seems like a lot for 500gb drives, $75 a pop? shrug
Actually $99 each, from xByte.
I already have 2 of them, came with the server.
Then your sheet should show the rest cost.. just because you already paid for them does not matter, it's still money spent.
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@Dashrender said:
Then your sheet should show the rest cost.. just because you already paid for them does not matter, it's still money spent.
Well, there are a couple ways of looking at this.
Considering the drives will sit unusued if I go anything OTHER than 7.2K 500GB, it's actually wasted money if I were to go that way.
Granted, I'm not saying to spend more money to save making a bigger mistake. I am just saying I'm not entirely sure how to cost that out. For MY scenario that is the "additional cost" to implement.
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In your situation you need two tables - one showing real costs, and one for management that show the what you will be spending to do the project costs. The difference is the things you already have on hand.
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@MattSpeller said
He does not mention SAS so I was assuming 7200rpm SATA commodity disposable spinny rust.
Yeah the 7.2K drives were SATA.
The 10K and 15K were SAS.
The 7.2K NL-SAS drives would have added at least $200 to the total cost, not including how one would figure out how to figure out my cost including the drives I already own, which are not NL-SAS.
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@BRRABill said
Yeah the 7.2K drives were SATA.
"Enterprise" SATA, I should say, not consumer grade.
FWIW.
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@BRRABill said in SATA vs NL-SAS vs SAS For New Array:
The server I am looking to put these drives into has 3.5 inch bays, so I could use either 3.5 or 2.5 inch disks.
Is there a preferred one to go with in this scenario? Or does size really not matter, so to speak? Is one preferred?
Sometimes on xByte the 2.5 drive is cheaper than the 3.5 which is why I ask...
If you have 3.5" bays, you'd use those disks. With very rare exception. 3.5" is much cheaper but uses lots of space. But you are already using that space so...
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@BRRABill said in SATA vs NL-SAS vs SAS For New Array:
Well, there are a couple ways of looking at this.
Considering the drives will sit unusued if I go anything OTHER than 7.2K 500GB, it's actually wasted money if I were to go that way.
No, that's called the sunk cost fallacy and should never be considered. That money is already spent and is part of both equations equally. You own the disks, so the possibility of using the disks for "free" should be considered as an option, but the cost of them is not a factor. If you got them for free, for $300 or for a billion dollars doesn't matter, what you have today are some disks and nothing more. Don't give into the emotions of sunk cost.
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@scottalanmiller said in SATA vs NL-SAS vs SAS For New Array:
No, that's called the sunk cost fallacy and should never be considered. That money is already spent and is part of both equations equally. You own the disks, so the possibility of using the disks for "free" should be considered as an option, but the cost of them is not a factor. If you got them for free, for $300 or for a billion dollars doesn't matter, what you have today are some disks and nothing more. Don't give into the emotions of sunk cost.
I agree with that, but the discussion was whether to include that cost in my "total cost" column above.
I guess a better question would be ... if someone gave me 4 of those drives for free, would I put $400 for total cost or $800?
If this was a discussion on straight cost vs. IOPS, I think I would use the $800. But since I am trying to figure it out for MY scenarion, I would think the $400.
