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    Web Application VS Windows Application

    Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved IT Discussion
    programming
    450 Posts 17 Posters 137.7k Views
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    • scottalanmillerS
      scottalanmiller
      last edited by

      When you are ready for another insane leap in speed, move from things like MySQL to things like MongoDB.

      dafyreD 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
      • wirestyle22W
        wirestyle22
        last edited by

        Speaking of insane leaps, do you guys have any source content for SQL best practices?

        scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • dafyreD
          dafyre @scottalanmiller
          last edited by

          @scottalanmiller said:

          When you are ready for another insane leap in speed, move from things like MySQL to things like MongoDB.

          I'm looking into that. I can see things like what I am tinkering with in my spare time being quite useful in a MongoDB type setup... I just need to figure out how to structure the data for it.

          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • scottalanmillerS
            scottalanmiller @wirestyle22
            last edited by

            @wirestyle22 said:

            Speaking of insane leaps, do you guys have any source content for SQL best practices?

            "Best Practice", if you can call it that, is to not use relational databases for most workloads (say 60% of them) and when you do to abstract it with a good ORM and not write SQL yourself. Using relational databases should not be an assumption and interacting with it directly should be very special case.

            1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
            • IT-ADMINI
              IT-ADMIN
              last edited by

              please anyone tell me whether this guy is right or not ??
              http://www.yegor256.com/2014/12/01/orm-offensive-anti-pattern.html

              he smash the whole concept of ORM, what the hell is this ????

              scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • scottalanmillerS
                scottalanmiller @IT-ADMIN
                last edited by

                @IT-ADMIN said:

                please anyone tell me whether this guy is right or not ??
                http://www.yegor256.com/2014/12/01/orm-offensive-anti-pattern.html

                he smash the whole concept of ORM, what the hell is this ????

                I feel like you are desperately looking for justification for hand coding SQL. It's a silly thing to be talking about. What is your goal here? If you don't want to use an ORM, don't use one. Don't waste time coming up with wacky people complaining, you can always find someone that will rant about anything that you want. Obviously this guy doesn't agree with the industry. Do you know him and trust him. If not, why are you reading his article?

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • scottalanmillerS
                  scottalanmiller
                  last edited by

                  One of his key issues is that ORMs are difficult to test. Are you doing test driven development? What kind of testing are you doing?

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • scottalanmillerS
                    scottalanmiller
                    last edited by

                    Did anyone notice that the complaint at the end wasn't that ORM was bad but that he didn't like Hibernate and his solution was to.... make a new ORM that he shows how to implement?

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • IT-ADMINI
                      IT-ADMIN
                      last edited by

                      no, i posted this morning on spicework hoping i found someone tried a good ORM and advice me how to efficiently use it without having my first issue of performance, then one guy tell me this,

                      this is my post : https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/1475172-php-best-orm?page=1#entry-5568544

                      scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                      • scottalanmillerS
                        scottalanmiller @IT-ADMIN
                        last edited by

                        @IT-ADMIN said:

                        no, i posted this morning on spicework hoping i found someone tried a good ORM and advice me how to efficiently use it without having my first issue of performance, then one guy tell me this,

                        That's not a development forum, why would you want to get advice there?

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • dafyreD
                          dafyre
                          last edited by

                          I'm not sure about many of the ORMs out there for PHP, but RedBean is the first one I've found, and for my apps, it has been very performant and does not cause speed problems.

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • IT-ADMINI
                            IT-ADMIN
                            last edited by

                            they have a php section, therefor i posted in it

                            scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                            • scottalanmillerS
                              scottalanmiller
                              last edited by

                              His points are not completely wrong, but they are, I feel, mostly silly. He relies on assumptions that are not true to make his point. Like ORM breaks the object model, this is simply wrong and false. He might be correct about hibernate, but not about ORM as a concept. He says that it is slow, so are lots of good things, slow is often a sign that we are doing things correct. If slow is the concern, relational databases are slow. Are we abandoning them? He complains that ORM are hard to test. Not sure if he is correct there, but this point is only non-moot if we are testing, are we?

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • scottalanmillerS
                                scottalanmiller @IT-ADMIN
                                last edited by

                                @IT-ADMIN said:

                                they have a php section, therefor i posted in it

                                They have a section for anything that can get advertising. It's an SMB IT forum, not a development forum, that's all that there is to it.

                                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                • IT-ADMINI
                                  IT-ADMIN
                                  last edited by

                                  ok dear scott, thank you for your advice, i'm sorry if i upset you and waste your time 😉

                                  scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                  • scottalanmillerS
                                    scottalanmiller @IT-ADMIN
                                    last edited by

                                    @IT-ADMIN said:

                                    ok dear scott, thank you for your advice, i'm sorry if i upset you and waste your time 😉

                                    It feels like you are going in circles. You really want to do old development using tools and techniques that you are used to. I understand that. And there is value to that. But there are also modern tools and techniques that make things much easier for development that you can leverage. I think that you need to decide on your goals and needs before looking for details like this.

                                    We don't even know what technologies make sense for your project. Right now you are shopping for an ORM before even knowing if your data is relational. The cart is before the horse.

                                    IT-ADMINI 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • IT-ADMINI
                                      IT-ADMIN @scottalanmiller
                                      last edited by

                                      @scottalanmiller said:

                                      @IT-ADMIN said:

                                      ok dear scott, thank you for your advice, i'm sorry if i upset you and waste your time 😉

                                      It feels like you are going in circles. You really want to do old development using tools and techniques that you are used to. I understand that. And there is value to that. But there are also modern tools and techniques that make things much easier for development that you can leverage. I think that you need to decide on your goals and needs before looking for details like this.

                                      We don't even know what technologies make sense for your project. Right now you are shopping for an ORM before even knowing if your data is relational. The cart is before the horse.

                                      No, we already finished our conceptual model of data, and we already knew the schema of our DB and we get the tables and the relations btw them all,

                                      scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • IT-ADMINI
                                        IT-ADMIN
                                        last edited by

                                        my collegue want to use the traditional method of creating tables manually and doing everything manual, till now i try to convince him to use modern technologies, i even showed him this forum and your replies about the advantages of using modern technologies, he told me these guys have more experience, but we in our situation we are considered beginners and we should know all details of our projects in order to learn and understand staff in details

                                        dafyreD scottalanmillerS 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                        • scottalanmillerS
                                          scottalanmiller @IT-ADMIN
                                          last edited by

                                          @IT-ADMIN said:

                                          No, we already finished our conceptual model of data, and we already knew the schema of our DB and we get the tables and the relations btw them all,

                                          This is the problem. While I often like to do data-driven development, you are making system design decisions based on assumptions. Why was the data modeled at all? How did you decide that it should be relational and why did you design something that the ORM would do?

                                          I'm not saying that the design is wrong, but you have made your decisions already. It's, more or less, too late to be asking the questions now.

                                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                          • dafyreD
                                            dafyre @IT-ADMIN
                                            last edited by

                                            @IT-ADMIN said:

                                            my collegue want to use the traditional method of creating tables manually and doing everything manual, till now i try to convince him to use modern technologies, i even showed him this forum and your replies about the advantages of using modern technologies, he told me these guys have more experience, but we in our situation we are considered beginners and we should know all details of our projects in order to learn and understand staff in details

                                            It seems to me that you have a good understanding of the data that will go into your system, if you already know how the database will be structured and all that. What your colleague is wanting to do is spend time writing and debugging code that handles the CRUD (create,read,update,delete) functions.

                                            My question for him, is "Why would you want to re-invent the wheel?"

                                            scottalanmillerS 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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