When is SSD a MUST HAVE for server? thoughts? Discussion :D
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
HP doesn't have any blind swapping limitations on third party drives. At least not as far as I've ever seen.
What was/is the issue with using off the shelf SSDs in HP servers then? Other than MLC/TLC have shorter lifespans than SLC (and I'm not sure that Enterprise class drives are even SLC)?
They don't have the trays or firmware to talk to the OS.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
HP doesn't have any blind swapping limitations on third party drives. At least not as far as I've ever seen.
What was/is the issue with using off the shelf SSDs in HP servers then? Other than MLC/TLC have shorter lifespans than SLC (and I'm not sure that Enterprise class drives are even SLC)?
They don't have the trays or firmware to talk to the OS.
I thought a source was found for trays (maybe not). The firmware is the issue - (is it really the OS or the RAID card?). This comes back to the ability to blind hotswap drives - can you blind hotswap non OEM drives in a HP without potential for data loss?
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@Dashrender said:
I thought a source was found for trays (maybe not). The firmware is the issue - (is it really the OS or the RAID card?). This comes back to the ability to blind hotswap drives - can you blind hotswap non OEM drives in a HP without potential for data loss?
Firmware has never been a factor in blind swapping. Can't, or else blind swapping would not be able to work.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I thought a source was found for trays (maybe not). The firmware is the issue - (is it really the OS or the RAID card?). This comes back to the ability to blind hotswap drives - can you blind hotswap non OEM drives in a HP without potential for data loss?
Firmware has never been a factor in blind swapping. Can't, or else blind swapping would not be able to work.
I guess the question is, how do you know when you have a failure if the firmware on the SSD can't properly report it to the RAID controller?
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Let me ask this another way.
Scott - would you be willing to run non OEM SSD in a HP server with an HP Server RAID card in a production environment? And if yes, what drives?
If no, why not?
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@Dashrender said:
@scottalanmiller said:
@Dashrender said:
I thought a source was found for trays (maybe not). The firmware is the issue - (is it really the OS or the RAID card?). This comes back to the ability to blind hotswap drives - can you blind hotswap non OEM drives in a HP without potential for data loss?
Firmware has never been a factor in blind swapping. Can't, or else blind swapping would not be able to work.
I guess the question is, how do you know when you have a failure if the firmware on the SSD can't properly report it to the RAID controller?
Ah, now reporting, that's the issue. Failures are often not reported correctly. But the blind swapping works just fine.
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@Dashrender said:
Let me ask this another way.
Scott - would you be willing to run non OEM SSD in a HP server with an HP Server RAID card in a production environment? And if yes, what drives?
If no, why not?
No, because ...
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I pay for that gear for the purpose of getting support. Bypassing that rarely makes sense. You should question your use of HP hardware if you are going to have these thoughts.
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Non-OEM SSDs will not report to the RAID card to report to the hypervisor or the ILO to tell us when something is failing.
IF you want HP gear but don't car about support AND you are happy with software RAID, then this would be fine. But why not run SuperMicro then?
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My emotions make me say - I want HP level support on the hardware (mobo/raid/ram, etc) but want pricing on the drives to be more inline consumer stuff.
I'd have to do a price break down, but it seems that the mobo/ram are moderately priced higher than prosumer stuff, yet we get the awesome support HP provides - but in drives, we get utterly bent over. The drives are 2-300% more expensive.
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I understand that we want to care about our data - but it's hard overlooking the sever price increase for Enterprise OEM drives.
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I was checking out which drives would fit in my budget and not give me the firmware alerts. I came across this 800GB model and found that it was 40%-ish cheaper on the Canadian version of Dell's site. At first I didn't realize that it was the Canadian and couldn't figure out why the exact same drive was priced so differently. I still am kind a wondering about that. With the exchange rate it would should be cheaper in the US.
Manufacturer Part# : C1NHC | Dell Part# : 342-6080
Canadian - http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Memory/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=bsd&cs=cabsdt1&sku=342-6080&mfgpid=225340US - http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsdv&cs=04a5w&sku=342-6080
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@Dashrender said:
I understand that we want to care about our data - but it's hard overlooking the sever price increase for Enterprise OEM drives.
It's hard but try to imagine running a drive support business. You have no control over how they will be used, where they will be deployed, the rates at which data goes to them, if they get dropped, etc. Now you need to buy SSDs from a top manufacturer, you need to test them, you need to develop firmware that makes them do extra cool stuff and talk specifically to your controllers. Now you need to ship them out and hope that people in the field take care of them.
All of that is pretty doable.
Now imagine how much it costs when one fails or is perceived to have failed. You have to get another drive at the full expense of the first one. You need to get it FAST, which means keeping it in a warehouse ready to go. That's not cheap at all - you have to invest in drives long before they fail in the field and you have to stock them in a warehouse. Now you have to hire a consultant to take that drive, go by car to the customer site and and work on replacing the drive. It adds up, fast.
Let's assume buying a drive is $200. For every two drives you buy, you need a third in stock. Cost of repair is likely another $200 to the tech, maybe double that.
How much would you want to charge for a $200 drive that will easily cost you $500 over its lifespan?
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@wrx7m said:
I was checking out which drives would fit in my budget and not give me the firmware alerts. I came across this 800GB model and found that it was 40%-ish cheaper on the Canadian version of Dell's site. At first I didn't realize that it was the Canadian and couldn't figure out why the exact same drive was priced so differently. I still am kind a wondering about that. With the exchange rate it would should be cheaper in the US.
Manufacturer Part# : C1NHC | Dell Part# : 342-6080
Canadian - http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Memory/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=bsd&cs=cabsdt1&sku=342-6080&mfgpid=225340US - http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=bsdv&cs=04a5w&sku=342-6080
All technology parts are insanely taxed in Canada. Nothing from Canada is cheap. It cripples their economy.
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@scottalanmiller That would make sense if it were the other way around. The US site has it for $937 and the Canadian site is $599. Why is the US site so much more expensive??
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Oh, wow. Well... exchange rate I guess. LOL
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@scottalanmiller said:
Oh, wow. Well... exchange rate I guess. LOL
uh.. no - wouldn't the exchange rate make the Canadian price more like $1200? because their money is worth less than US?
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Is the Canadian location pricing in CDN or USD?
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@scottalanmiller said:
Is the Canadian location pricing in CDN or USD?
Of course I would assume CDN - but even if it was in USD, why would it be 50% more expensive in the US vs Canada? I would expect the opposite - as you said, Canadian taxes should drive the price way higher, even before considering it being in a lower valued currency.
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A lot of Canadian things price in USD. Just like in Nicaragua, you never know when the price is going to be USD.
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I guess the real test is if I can order from the site and have it shipped to me in California.
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@wrx7m said:
I guess the real test is if I can order from the site and have it shipped to me in California.
let us know.
