Backup System For 5 PC SMB
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@BRRABill said:
I am going back to my (US-based) backup vendors on this one.
Can you explain to me specifically why you cannot
a -- make a full backup of my Windows 7/8/10 system
and
b -- spin that backup image up temporarily in a virtual environment (virtualbox, etc.)I am still hearing from them that you can (and that they work directly with Microsoft), so I'd like to present them with your direct words on the issue, and get a response from them.
Thanks!
Because it's VDI. Which US vendor is saying this? Maybe they should be told to post here?
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@BRRABill said:
@Jason said:
@BRRABill said:
Regardless of whether it is a good idea or not, I'd just like to know the answer.
He's already went over this. This would be considered a VDI deployment.
I wanted to give him an opportunity to more specifically answer to the exact scenario I am talking about.
I get the feeling if I copy and paste his original response, they'll come back with a "we're not doing that".
I haven't seen anything slightly different. What about their scenario do you feel is not exactly as he described? It's a very core VDI scenario, as "generic VDI" as I can reasonably imagine.
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@scottalanmiller said:
I haven't seen anything slightly different. What about their scenario do you feel is not exactly as he described? It's a very core VDI scenario, as "generic VDI" as I can reasonably imagine.
I guess the only think I can think of (and not saying this is correct) is that it's not like you are using the machine. It's either
a -- just booting the image to see if it boots so you know your backups are legit. (Aka, how else could you test to be sure you can actually do a BMR if needed?)
b -- actually using the machine, but while the other is dead, and only in a temporary capacity
But I know from MS licensing of other things, such as Hyper-V Replica, that if you want that ability, you pay for it.
Again, it's their product and they can license it as they please, but it would seem these two scenarios should be allowed. Especially A.
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I'm working on my own OS. I have 3 lines of code done. Who wants to help?
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Why?
To test A you, guess what, do a BMR. Period. Doing that will test your backups. Frankly compared to the cost of VDI, you can buy a second HD, put that in the desktop, do a BMR and BAM, if it boots, youre golden.As for B, That's already been covered. That would be a DR case, and you always have to pay for DR cases. It's never been free with MS.
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@BRRABill said:
I'm working on my own OS. I have 3 lines of code done. Who wants to help?
huh? Why? Why not just use Linux? Unless you're looking to make a profit.
Yes I know you are joking.
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@Dashrender said:
Why?
To test A you, guess what, do a BMR. Period. Doing that will test your backups. Frankly compared to the cost of VDI, you can buy a second HD, put that in the desktop, do a BMR and BAM, if it boots, youre golden.As for B, That's already been covered. That would be a DR case, and you always have to pay for DR cases. It's never been free with MS.
All good points.
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@Dashrender said:
Yes I know you are joking.
Of course. Bordering on being passive-aggressive.
LOL..
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@BRRABill said:
a -- just booting the image to see if it boots so you know your backups are legit. (Aka, how else could you test to be sure you can actually do a BMR if needed?)
This part is reasonable and I could see being allowed, sort of.
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@BRRABill said:
b -- actually using the machine, but while the other is dead, and only in a temporary capacity
This is the part that does not sound in any way reasonable to me. "Temporary" is a very vague term here. You say "temporary capacity", but I hear "optional VDI." This is a full on VDI situation and you can get the functionality better in other ways, so there is no need for MS to provide this from a functionality standpoint and reasons to avoid it from a licensing nightmare standpoint, IMHO.
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@scottalanmiller said:
@BRRABill said:
b -- actually using the machine, but while the other is dead, and only in a temporary capacity
This is the part that does not sound in any way reasonable to me. "Temporary" is a very vague term here. You say "temporary capacity", but I hear "optional VDI." This is a full on VDI situation and you can get the functionality better in other ways, so there is no need for MS to provide this from a functionality standpoint and reasons to avoid it from a licensing nightmare standpoint, IMHO.
Again, this is just for desktops, right?
You'd see the functionality of it at a server level.
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@BRRABill said:
You'd see the functionality of it at a server level.
Yes because they are already virtualized.
If you were coming from VDI and doing this, it would be completely reasonable.
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And bam, we found the reason that all of these products exist, why they are promoted, why everything going on is legit....
All of these products are talking about imaging and restoring a machine. In the desktop world, if you are starting from VDI, all of this makes perfect sense. It is "starting from physical" and doing "DR to VDI" that is the issue. If we go physical to physical OR virtual to virtual it all works.
Servers are different only because we assume a physical situation would not exist. That's what makes it different, primarily, between the two.
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@scottalanmiller said:
Yes because they are already virtualized.
Ah, I understand.
So that is why it is legal on the server side, because the odds are you are already using a virtual copy of the server.
What if for some terrible reason you weren't. If it was a physical server, would the same roadblocks happen?
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no, because MS allows you to move non OEM server licenses to the hosts every 90 days, be it physical or virtual.
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@Dashrender said:
no, because MS allows you to move non OEM server licenses to the hosts every 90 days, be it physical or virtual.
So how does booting up the VM periodically (say every week) to test it fall under that?
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@BRRABill said:
@Dashrender said:
no, because MS allows you to move non OEM server licenses to the hosts every 90 days, be it physical or virtual.
So how does booting up the VM periodically (say every week) to test it fall under that?
Unrelated use cases.
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If you're talking about a physical server that is backed up, and you're turning on a VM copy weekly as part of your test, yeah You're breaking the license agreement.
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@BRRABill said:
@scottalanmiller said:
Yes because they are already virtualized.
Ah, I understand.
So that is why it is legal on the server side, because the odds are you are already using a virtual copy of the server.
What if for some terrible reason you weren't. If it was a physical server, would the same roadblocks happen?
No, server licensing has no VDI concept and none of these limitations. VDI is purely a use case for customers who either really see value in it at huge scale or, far more likely, screwed something up, are locked in and have little other choice. So in both cases, it is huge cost.
This entire conceptual problem is all one from the "using Windows desktop licenses" perspective.
Unless you mean "request an audit and see if you get dinged."
